New Ca reactor design with pics and drawings

[melev]

Assuming I built this perfectly and all worked as planned, what am I looking for in my effluent? Am I looking for a specific pH output? calcium output? Or do I just test the tank water itself? It seems like during the first few days of trial and error, you could really cause some havoc with your water quality.

I'd love to do a test run on an empty tank before I tied it in with my 4.5 yr old reef. But it would be nice to know more facts so as to be able to anticipate and comprehend the results.

[pantinor]

Here are two links I found useful:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../2/default.asp
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

[melev]

Thank you. I did a quick read of the first one, and see it is the output of alkalinity I'd be testing for. I'll do more intensive reading when I'm more in the mood.

Sometimes those articles are just too much for the brain to handle. I just want it to work, I don't want to have the chemist's breakdown of the process.

But before this looks like a complaint, I'll thank you and click Submit!

[tjthrows]

Are these reactors worth it? After the build cost and recharging the CO2 is it much cheaper than supplementing? I would assume the ARM you all speak of is the Calcium substrate? Is the purpose of the CO2 to carry the Calcium or does the Calcium need an acid env. to dissolve?

TJ

[melev]

Like I even have a right to answer this...

I'm still learning, but basically what seems to be the system is that you have a chamber filled with aragonite or crushed coral, which is made up mostly of calcium. The CO2 mixed with saltwater drops the pH level in the unit, causing the coral to break down, which if I'm correct releases alk and ca into your water.

The benefit is that you are constantly adding a little bit to your system compared to dropping in a dose once or twice a day all at once. For some tanks, that gets really expensive if the population sucks up calcium that way I devour chocolate, and the reactor pays for itself relatively quickly.

And if I've got it wrong, someone will jump in and correct me.

[pantinor]

DJ88,

Can I ask how this reactor design improves the following one that you posted about a year ago:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hlight=reactor

That one looks great too!

Also, I am thinking of integrating a square bubble counter on the side of this Rx to keep with the whole square theme! cool huh!

Later

[DJ88©]

Marc,

Here is how I start up my reactors from scratch.

• fill it with water. Hey some people don't .. really .
• Fill it as full as you can with a cup or something. Close the top up. Open up one of the fittings on top to bleed off excess air until all of it(or as much as possible is out). Use the feed pump to do this.
• Seal off and start up recirc pump. Let it run for a while with the feed pump running as well. Set teh effluent rate at about 100ml/min.
• Once you have a steady flow rate and are satisfied all is fine(no leaks etc). Turn on the CO2. Aim for 60 BPM to start. Let it run over night.
• Measure effluent alk. I aim for double what I want in my tank to start. ie 24dkh. or there abouts. Once it has settled in at the alk you want after a day or so(possibly as fast as a few hours).
• Measure pH of effluent. Record this number.
• over the next few days monitor tank's alk and Ca. if they drop increase the bubble rate. This will decrease the pH of the effluent and will increase its effectiveness at keeping your levels higher.
• Adjust the flow rates and CO2 rates as necessary. Repeat.

In a nutshell that is it.

Remember this. Increasing flow rate increases pH. Increasing bubbles decreases pH.

I usually aim for 6.8 to 7.0 to start and go from there.

Are these reactors worth it? After the build cost and recharging the CO2 is it much cheaper than supplementing? I would assume the ARM you all speak of is the Calcium substrate? Is the purpose of the CO2 to carry the Calcium or does the Calcium need an acid env. to dissolve?

If you are running a system that has a high Ca demand like I have in the past these reactors are worth thier weight in gold IMO IME. Have you ever tried to dose two part solutions for a fully stocked tank? If you have. you'll understand why this is such a time saver. And $$$ saver. It costs me about $20 to fill my 10lb CO2 tank a year. maybe. Less now with this reactor I am betting. That $20 wouldn't even have gotten me one months worth of additives for dosing. The build cost of this reactor to me for all my acrylic was around $35-45. I bought off cuts. Total outlay for this reactor... and additional equipment? Umm say $300CDN. To automate my system with this piece of equipment so I can leave it run on it's own.. I can't calculate how valuable that is.

The CO2 decreases the pH in the reactor to a level that the Calcium Carbonate based medai breaks down and dissolves into solution for use in your tank. Basically to replace what is used by corals and other creatures and plants to grow and thrive.

I will never have a tank running without one of these. Even if it isn't fully stocked with coral. With additives you run the risk of overdosing or forgetting. When levels of alk and ca and others drift you can have side effects in the tank. As well I have found you end up chasing numbers way easier. Ca reactors if used properly will keep your tank stable and happy. With a minimum of effort. A stable tank is what is most desireable to me. With stability comes a good living environment for the animals you have under your care. Give them the best they deserve. IMO IME. A CA reactor does that and more.

Can I ask how this reactor design improves the following one that you posted about a year ago

Aahhh the beast.. lol.

Well that was a test bed for me mostly. It worked really well. But it was with that reactor I started thinking about having the flow inside go in both directions. Allowing for less plumbing and less fuss. A side result was efficiency has been improved a lot. I did a lot of messing around with playfairs recirc loop on that reactor and decidd a small venturi was the way to go to ensure a strong suction from the top to the bottom. I can't say that there are many other "improvements" or changes. other than size has been cut back drastically(height) and the new one holds more media.

That one looks great too!

It worked really well. But the cost of 24"of 6" dia tubing wasn't worth it. That reactor wasn't cheap. lol. This new one.. wow.. about 1/4 the cost. or less.

Also, I am thinking of integrating a square bubble counter on the side of this Rx to keep with the whole square theme! cool huh

Ahh nice! I should do that. get rid of the quickly thrown together one I am using. Keep with the theme..

hmm me and cubes.. lol

cheers guys,

[melev]

Darren,

Thanks for the answers. I'm almost there, seriously. I'm trying to wrap my brain around the reaction process.

If the stuff in the reaction chamber is made up of calcium (old crushed corals), and the CO2 breaks it down, why is the effluent coming out of the reactor only alk? Or is it kalk? LOL

How does the Calcium get replenished with you are only dripping in (or is it more like a stream from that little pump?) high alk around 24 dKH?

With B-Ionic, I have two solutions. One tops off Alk, the other tops of Ca.

The Ca Reactor has to be putting out Ca as well....

PS: how do you add those cool dots when you list things point by point?

[Lunchbucket]

the effluent isn't only alk...it is a balanced solution of ca and alk. just basically a 2 part system in one. the ca is balanced for the alk reading. i really dont' remember what ca ppm is for what alk. in tanks most people only measure alk to see where their levels are at since IMO and others alk is the most important for your tank...you can only have so many ppm of ca in that alk reading.

basically if your alk is fine you ca will be fine...unless you started very low which you might have to boost it up to get it to normal levels.

ca reactor is like a natural 2 part dosing...pretty cool little system. you also get trace elements that are in the reactor media too

Lunchbucket

[DJ88©]

Marc,

oooops.. Should. have explained the Ca, Alk and other trace elements balance more. I forget to from time to time. All I keep and eye on is ALk.

Thanks again Lunch.

The bullets are found when you are making a post under the button LIST. When you create the list it lets you use letters, numbers or how I like to do it. points.

if you use this format(minus the spaces)
[LIST ]
[* ]object one
[* ]object two[/LIST ]

you will get this.

• object one
• object two

HTH.

Thanks again lunch. You seem to catch these things before I do. lol

[melev]

Thank you both for helping me comprehend this better. After all, once I get it, I can share the knowledge with others and help take some of the load off your shoulders occasionally.

[Lunchbucket]

i was off class early this morning so i checked out the ?

hope i answered it ok. you have anything to add DJ???? i just threw it off the top of my head

Lunchbucket

[DJ88©]

Marc,

Anytime. The more the merrier. I'll probably still help out if I can with others tho. It's in my nature.


Lunch..

I think between all of us helping here we managed to get it all covered well enough for anyone to figure out.

I do have to say this thread is turning into a pretty informative thread. It is my longest ever.. by far. lol


Well back to the books. sigh..

[Mr_Quality]

DJ,

The trhead is long because you have a good design here. Once you have it all drawn up, you should see if snailman would post it on the RC DIY page.

Mike

[DJ88©]

Mike,

Thanks..

And I will do that..

Cheers

[Lunchbucket]

it is a very good thread. almost every aspect is covered.

just don't let the books get the best of you....they do that to me sometimes

Lunchbucket

[bmcq]

I've been following this thread from the beginning! Looks like a very good design that I also would like to incorporate into my system. A couple of questions:[list=1][*]How thick is the material you are using.[*]Is there a difference between acrylic and plexiglass[*]What is the preferred "glue" for assembly[/list=1]
Hopefully these questions aren't redundant. Excellant thread .... could be the reason why I keep coming back!!!!

[barebottoms]

I want to be a phantom helper too:

1) can't say for sure cause I'm too lazy to look at the pictures again, but 1/4" would be easier to work with than 1/8" Plus your height will determine the amount of bowing, thus the thickness you need.

2) nope, its like "Xerox" and "Photostatic Copy" Tradename vs. Generic name.

3)Weld On 3 or 4

[melev]

Wow! A question I can answer.

1/4" acrylic. Plexiglas is a different material, that yellows with age, becomse brittle and cracks.

You can find acrylic in your area by using the Yellow Pages and searching under "plastics". The product I use is called Acrylite.

Weld-On #3 and #16 are the ones that work well. #3 is very thin, and looks like water. (#4 is the same, but slow to set/dry... I'm too impatient for that! hehe) #16 is thick and resembles modeling glue. I use it for patching and reinforcing seams that are untrustworthy.

[barebottoms]

melev, I think you're thinking of Lexan (tm) (polycarbonates) vs. Plexiglass. Plexiglass is Rholm's name for Acrylic.

[DJ88©]

I used 1/4 inch. Normally that is all I use. Works great.

Thanks for answering the next one guys.

I used only Methylene Chloride with the construction. Basically the other ingredient in Weld on other than ground acrylic. I only use a bit of weld on 40 around where the PVC is fitted through the acrylic.

I am glad there are so many here who are benefitting from this. I didn't expect the reaction I have gotten..

just don't let the books get the best of you....they do that to me sometimes

I am trying.. Last few days have been a bit much tho. Transform Calculus midterm next week..

[Lunchbucket]

ouch man! sounds tough. i know my thesis is getting to me now...i just want to quit but i can't...too close to being done w/ the hard part...then mostly downhill

Lunchbucket

[DJ88©]

Lunch,

know what? the midterm wont be bad. It is basically taking all the theory and such I learned in the last semester and using all the wonderful short cuts we weren't taught before.. I am trying to see if I can ace it..

[pantinor]

Hey guys,

I don't know if you answered this already. Did you say the OD of the input tube from the tank is 1/4" and the same for the effluent line? How can a minijet pump through 1/4" OD? is that right?

Darren, good luck on the test. I remember taking differential equations in college. tough but interesting! Soon after I changed my major from math to intl relations and went to Japan. Now I am a code monkey

[DJ88©]

How can a minijet pump through 1/4" OD? is that right?

What I always did was fit the 1/4" tubing inside a larger dia tube that fit inside the outlet of the minijet.

I remember taking differential equations in college. tough but interesting

It is interesting.. which is scary. I actually look forward to the lectures.

Now I am a code monkey

Hmm we used to have those guys come on board ship on trips to the gulf or anywhere interesting.. I thought I was wierd..

Kidding..