J.A.P.A. (Just Another Plywood Aquarium)

[MarkS]

I've just started construction on a 224 gallon tank. This tank evolved from this thread.

The only fasteners I'll need... Liquid Nails and deck screws...


The bottom with a 2x2 brace:


The back attached. One screw every 2":


This is gonna be BIG:


That's all I have for now. I'll post more as the construction progresses.

[andbigdaddy2]

Cant wait ill be following this thread

[horkn]

sweet.

keep us updated, with costs as well!

I am assuming you can drill a plywood tank for CL and drains just like a normal tank, right??

[Kentanner11]

Ive allways thought a plywood tank was cool! I will be following this thread for sure! be sure to post ALOT of pics!~!

[TheFlyingTang]

J.A.B.M. (Just Another Big Mess)

Why would you use liquid nails? Gorilla glue is a stronger bond, where liquid nails remains flexible.

Some things you don't want to skimp on, like the tank. Don't forget to pay your insurance policy before you fill'er up.

[CyclistMT]

Originally posted by TheFlyingTang
J.A.B.M. (Just Another Big Mess)

Why would you use liquid nails? Gorilla glue is a stronger bond, where liquid nails remains flexible.

Some things you don't want to skimp on, like the tank. Don't forget to pay your insurance policy before you fill'er up.

Have you built a plywood tank using Liquid Nails or Gorilla glue? If not, you're making assumptions with no working knowledge of the project. A plywood tank is somewhat different then a regular woodworking project. The glue contributes very little to the structural integrity.

I used Liquid Nails on my tank. It's been up since December 06 with no problem and lots of others have built their tanks this way with long term success.

It seems there's so many people raggging on the smallest things around here anymore. Maybe I'm just grumpy today....

No offense intended here but if others are using this thread as a basis for thier decisions it's important they understand this is a viable method.

[samtheman]

What kind of plywood is that?

[MarkS]

Actually, you want a flexible bond. The wood will expand and contract and the flexible glue will allow that without over-stressing the joint. It also acts as a gap filler. The glue has very little to do with structural integrity of the tank. The screws take care of that. The glue is really just a backup. There is so little glue in such a small place that if you solely relied on the glue or relied on it too much, the seams would split.

I've used Gorilla Glue in the past and it is some really nasty and hard to use stuff. Its slick as snot and has a long set up time, so it's hard to get pieces to stay in place while you drill the holes for screws. I don't have large clamps and really never have a need for them, so I wont buy them. I'd never use Gorilla Glue in a project like this. JME.

Originally posted by samtheman
What kind of plywood is that?

3/4" birch.

[MarkS]

Its been raining for about 28 of the past 30 days and has been raining several days out of every week since April. The aquifer that supplies San Antonio's water is literally full (first time in recorded history). There is just no more room for any more water. They're forecasting up to 5" today. I can't work on this inside and can't do it outside either. I have almost everything, save for the epoxy and glass. I could be fiberglassing next week, but I will probably be finishing construction. Arrgggg!

[tgreene]

We've just completed our 48" x 96" x 12" deep Aquaculture system. I began adding water last evening, and figure it will take 4 days to fill.

http://www.nea-reefkeeping.com/forum...pic/15/24.html

and...

http://www.nea-reefkeeping.com/forum...pic/14/54.html

[Kentanner11]

Hey while your waiting why not start planning the plumbing, ie closed loop, returns, pumps, Live stock options, Lighting,etc. then start checking out different places for the best price!

[Hopeful Reefer]

For plumbing and such, are you able to use the same bulkheads as with a glass tank or must you go with something different?

[tgreene]

Yes, everything is the same. Since my tank is 3/4" plywood, I did however fill the inside gap with silicon, as well as allow a bead to form up anound the bulkhead nut.

[MeuserReef]

Originally posted by MarkS
Its been raining for about 28 of the past 30 days and has been raining several days out of every week since April......... .......Arrgggg!

Not much better to your east MarkS. Im interested to see this project from start to finish. I saw your 3D renderings in the last thread you started. Pretty cool software.

Subscribed to this build fo-shizzle!

[MarkS]

I just read an article in Fine Woodworking where they tested several glues. To their surprise, the best glue, regardless of the type of wood or tightness of the joint, was standard Elmer's wood glue. The weakest glue all around, also with the poorest gap-filling qualities, was Gorilla Glue. I think they summed it up best when they stated that "Polyurethane makes a great finish, but not a great glue."

They didn't test construction adhesives, but that was not the point of the tests. Still, it backs up my point about staying away from polyurethane glues for this purpose. You'll get a weaker joint and construction adhesive is just as waterproof.

[MarkS]

Originally posted by tgreene
We've just completed our 48" x 96" x 12" deep Aquaculture system. I began adding water last evening, and figure it will take 4 days to fill.

http://www.nea-reefkeeping.com/forum...pic/15/24.html

and...

http://www.nea-reefkeeping.com/forum...pic/14/54.html

I like that!

I designed something along those lines a few years back. I never built it though. I decided that aquaculture wasn't the direction I wanted to take.

This was going to be 480 gallons 48"x96"x24" and was planned to be as plankton friendly as possible. The six returns were going to be airlifts. The smaller pipes are air lines. After doing some research, I found out that the airlift design I had wasn't going to work. I would need to lift the water about 36" above the sump's water level. All I would end up with would have been six protein skimmers emptying into the main tank. While your design has more linear inches of overflow, if I were to ever build a tank like this, I would still use a 4" center overflow as in th rendering. It would greatly save on tank space. JMO.

[miwoodar]

MarkS...I almost missed this thread - I saw your last one though so I'm looking forward to it!

[otisbrown]

I am in the process of building a plywood sump. I used epoxy instead of liquid nails to bond the plywood. Do you think that will give me problems in the future?

[MarkS]

Originally posted by otisbrown
I am in the process of building a plywood sump. I used epoxy instead of liquid nails to bond the plywood. Do you think that will give me problems in the future?

As long as you used screws, no. I'd still be worried about the epoxy cracking over time and causing leaks. May never happen though.

[tgreene]

As you can see from the pics below, we used Liquid Nails, screws, and internal 2x4's for added stability. Additionally, the 2x4's allowed us to place a second row of screws all the way around, which in turn removed the stress points from the corner joints.

Once the Liquid Nails had completely set up, we gave the entire tank a couple of coats of Epoxy Resin, before seam sealing it all with fiberglass cloth and mat.

[miwoodar]

MarkS - what is your budget for this? I am in need of a large sump and had decided on a rubbermaid stock tank but you've got me thinking that I might try a wood sump instead.

[wooden_reefer]

My 150 gal ply is from exterior grade plywood.

[TheFlyingTang]

Actually I have a lot of experiece working with wood and building many, many custom stands and hoods.

BTW the screws are not where the strength comes form, it is from the glue. Screws are used to hold the parts together until the glue sets up.

Mark S- better go re-read the article. If the author says Elmers is better he is wrong. Elmers is a casin glue, hence its not water proof. Gorila glue is a urethane and is waterproof. If you did a stress test you would find that the wood fails before the urethane does, but with Elmers you will find the glue fails before the wood. Now if you are referencing Elmers urethane glue and comparing it to Gorila glue then you are comparing apples to apples and either is no better then the other.

All my custom stands and hoods are bonded with Gorilla glue. There will be no voids if you spread it out in a thin layer as the glue actually expands more then three times its volume to actually fill in voids in the wood. This is part of the reason it is such a strong adhesive. Liquid nails remains flexible. Flex equats to weakness over time as the parts actually move away from each other. Eventually you may have a structual failure. Liquid nails is grat to be used for what its ment to be used for- construction. Like using it to hold down floor sheeting in new construction. Thing is over time from the flex the joints get worse and worse because it is flexing and failing.

Structual failure is not an option when I am building a component that will literally have to support a fully loaded tank weighing in at 1500- 2500 lbs. or more. Ever seen the results of a stand failure due to poor construction or cheap materials? You get what you pay for and skimping on this is asking for trouble down the road.

[MarkS]

Originally posted by TheFlyingTang

Mark S- better go re-read the article. If the author says Elmers is better he is wrong. Elmers is a casin glue, hence its not water proof. Gorila glue is a urethane and is waterproof. If you did a stress test you would find that the wood fails before the urethane does, but with Elmers you will find the glue fails before the wood. Now if you are referencing Elmers urethane glue and comparing it to Gorila glue then you are comparing apples to apples and either is no better then the other.

Nope. That is exactly what they said. They tried different glues on different woods, including ipé. They did three test joints per type of wood and type of glue. In each type of wood and each type of glue, there was a joint that was very tight and needed to be tapped to go into place to simulate a starved joint, a joint that could go together by hand and a joint with a 1/64" gap on each side. The article did not test for waterproofness. Elmer's wood glue held up better and had better gap filling properties than any other glue. The wood failed before the joint. The weakest glue was the Gorilla glue. It had virtually no strength and almost no gap filling qualities. It does expand, but there is mostly air in the joint. It may be waterproof, but I'd never use it where strength was required. Not after reading that article.

The test used bridal joints and a hydraulic press and was conducted at a testing laboratory. All of the joints were allowed to cure for 3 weeks prior to being tested. Article

[32flavors]

well, I'm convinced. ;-)