The Ultimate DIY Rocks! - Page 40

israelnajar · #**976** 10/15/2006, 04:29 PM

Hey guys I just finished reading 40 pages and decided to give it a try. While I was mixing my first batch I thought how about empty pill capsules if you can get a source without purchasing tylonal and emptying the contents. And during the kuring process how about putting some CLR in the water to help with the lime dissolution. Anyway great thread.

Marinest · #**977** 10/16/2006, 12:00 AM

I was just skimming through the thread and I noticed you were looking for a quick safe way to cure the concrete rasonably fast. I am a Heavy Equipment and Pavements Operator in the Air Force, and when we need strong concrete fast this is what we do: Lessen the amount of water you use in your mix - less water = less drying time, when you need to quicken the curing process we throw a case of Coca-Cola into the back of the concrete truck, the sugar in the coke reacts with the gypsym i think, anyway that is what we use to speed up the process. We pour 18 inch thick pads and are able to walk on them in about 3 hours. Ohh, and for reference, a concrete truck holds around 6 cu. yds. of concrete so a 90 lb. bag would not need very much sugar at all.

Rhodophyta · #**978** 10/16/2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marinest
I was just skimming through the thread and I noticed you were looking for a quick safe way to cure the concrete rasonably fast. I am a Heavy Equipment and Pavements Operator in the Air Force, and when we need strong concrete fast this is what we do: Lessen the amount of water you use in your mix - less water = less drying time, when you need to quicken the curing process we throw a case of Coca-Cola into the back of the concrete truck, the sugar in the coke reacts with the gypsym i think, anyway that is what we use to speed up the process. We pour 18 inch thick pads and are able to walk on them in about 3 hours. Ohh, and for reference, a concrete truck holds around 6 cu. yds. of concrete so a 90 lb. bag would not need very much sugar at all.

Do you just throw the whole case, glass bottles, metal caps, and cardboard wrap into the truck? LOL! For really fast setup and no wait for leaching, you can replace the portland cement with a clear epoxy resin, but you have to use wax paper to shape and support it since it will permanently stick to practically anything else.

ezfelker · #**979** 10/16/2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhodophyta
Do you just throw the whole case, glass bottles, metal caps, and cardboard wrap into the truck? LOL! For really fast setup and no wait for leaching, you can replace the portland cement with a clear epoxy resin, but you have to use wax paper to shape and support it since it will permanently stick to practically anything else.

Rhodophyta - do you have a recipe for the epoxy rocks? I've been soaking my DIYs (salt/portland) for 4 months with weekly water changes and the pH is still off the charts

I'm about to throw in the towel.

BigSkyBart · #**980** 10/16/2006, 08:30 AM

Marinest...
I'm suprised that the AF allows coca cola custom concrete additives, I would think it would require the use of an approved concrete accelerator product.
Stationed in Great Falls? Kind of a soggy Fall morning today.
[welcome]

Marinest · #**981** 10/16/2006, 09:30 AM

You work with what you have over there and you need a runway quick, you know what i mean? Yeah it is pretty nasty out, and i have to run 2 miles today, ohh joy.

Travis L. Stevens · #**982** 10/16/2006, 11:37 AM

The largest problem about fast cures for rock isn't how difficult it is, but is it reef safe.

israelnajar: It sounds feasible, but the pill caplets would seem to be very expensive. After all, can you get 50lbs of them for $5? And using CLR would be a HUGE no-no. I'm not sure what chemicals would be in it, but I would hate for something to stay in the rocks and hurt your tank. After all, in a high concentration of CLR, wouldn't it break down the rocks and not just kure them? I'm just speculating out loud here.

Marinest - That sounds nice, but I don't think that is the type of curing that we need. The process that takes so long has been dubbed "Kuring" in this thread. It is where you soak the rocks in freshwater to let the pH stabilize. Without Kuring the rocks, it will spike the pH in the tank and kill everything.

KafudaFish · #**983** 10/16/2006, 12:53 PM

I checked my pH again and it is in the 8.5 range this weekend. I figure another week to soak just to be sure though. My problem is my tap water pH is in the 8 range too so I don't think my water is going to kure the rock anymore. I cannot remember this but should you kure the rock in saltwater also? Thanks for the great thread.

Travis L. Stevens · #**984** 10/16/2006, 01:07 PM

I've never done an additional saltwater Kure, but I guess it wouldn't hurt. I just don't like wasting expensive saltwater

KafudaFish · #**985** 10/16/2006, 01:47 PM

Don't worry it would not be wasted other than waste water from a WC. Just curious if a change to saltwater would make it spike any.

Rhodan · #**986** 10/16/2006, 01:51 PM

Collect rain water.

KafudaFish · #**987** 10/16/2006, 05:16 PM

Yeah rain water has a pH of around 5.5 so it would drive the cycle more but I really would not want to have to deal with any of the dust and anything else the rain would pick up too.

Marinest · #**988** 10/16/2006, 11:42 PM

Is there another way to lift the the rocks a couple of milimeters or so besides using something like pvc to keep from haveing dead spots in your sand bed? I don't want to put feet on the rocks because I am concerned about possibly cracking my tank.

Travis L. Stevens · #**989** 10/17/2006, 08:32 AM

I've found that making some flat bottomed rocks to be placed directly on the bottom of the tank, and then filling the tank with substrate is the better way to go. Sure, you decrease the overall amount of the substrate (which can save money), but you don't have to worry about the rocks creating Hydrogen Sulfide pockets, burrowing animals causing avalanches, etc.

ODOG · #**990** 10/17/2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis L. Stevens
The largest problem about fast cures for rock isn't how difficult it is, but is it reef safe.

israelnajar: It sounds feasible, but the pill caplets would seem to be very expensive. After all, can you get 50lbs of them for $5? And using CLR would be a HUGE no-no. I'm not sure what chemicals would be in it, but I would hate for something to stay in the rocks and hurt your tank. After all, in a high concentration of CLR, wouldn't it break down the rocks and not just kure them? I'm just speculating out loud here.

Marinest - That sounds nice, but I don't think that is the type of curing that we need. The process that takes so long has been dubbed "Kuring" in this thread. It is where you soak the rocks in freshwater to let the pH stabilize. Without Kuring the rocks, it will spike the pH in the tank and kill everything.

I have to admit I have not all 40 pages of this thread, although I read most of it a while ago and just re-found it. But, has anyone mentioned yeast? There is a thread in one of the OK reef club forums about making a concrete back wall. The author of that thread cures the product with yeast and if I recall his curing was only a week or 2 at most. Would the suger in the coke be doing the same thing as yeast. Does yeast make sugar when it breaks down?

Travis L. Stevens · #**991** 10/17/2006, 10:07 AM

Yes, dugg (Doug) on the Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society board did cure his rock wall in his tank with Yeast and Sugar. I tried that with my first batch of rocks with no success. I don't know if I didn't add enough or too much. But since I had no hard facts, I didn't mention it in this thread. Let me see if I can dig up that old thread.

speckled trout · #**992** 10/17/2006, 10:15 AM

Marinest, That's why I made my base rocks like these. I can stack all the other rocks on top of these. No dead spots, and my livestock can't topple them over with the legs protruding into the sand. I haven't had any issues with them and have tons of rock on top of them. Also, if done correctly, the rock doesn't weigh that much. In fact, mine are so porous that they drain water for ever when lifted out of the water. I don't worry about them putting too much pressure on the bottom of the tank because I use a plenum.

I wish I had a wider tank and better lights, though. If it was wider I could create a more realistic looking artificial reef. As it is, I have to stack my rocks almost straight up creating an unnatural setting. Also, my PCs don't put out enough light to support more light demanding corals unless they are almost at the top.

Rhodan · #**993** 10/17/2006, 10:17 AM

I believe yeast eats sugars and produces a carbon dioxide gases. That is why bread rises. Adding Coke may not be such bad idea. It's pH level is around 2.5 so that would give plenty of room for the concreate to kure...But if you are adding substances to lower the pH why not just use lemon juice?

Covey · #**994** 10/17/2006, 10:26 AM

Or CO2... That what their after with the yeast and sugar. The co2 it produces lowers the pH of the kure water.

Once you cured the salt out of the rocks you could kure it the rest of the way with CO2 injections to keep the pH down.

Travis L. Stevens · #**995** 10/17/2006, 10:30 AM

Ah ha. I found it. Here you go - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...35#post5229635

KafudaFish · #**996** 10/17/2006, 11:04 AM

Part of this project is for a back for a 2.5 gal tank I am putting in my daughter's room. I cut the rock block to fit into the tank on Sunday with a tile saw. I re-soaked this in fw and tested the pH. It was at 11 again this morning so I guess I had a mini-cycle again. Whenever I test my water I always let it sit for 2+ days so I don't think my earlier values were wrong. Just FYI everyone.

Travis L. Stevens · #**997** 10/17/2006, 11:20 AM

I wonder if it could be because there is less water volume.

speckled trout · #**998** 10/17/2006, 11:28 AM

Cutting diy rock is going to cause the rock to need curing agian. Your exposing cement that hasn't leached out the problem making substances that initially caused your pH problems.

Essentially, your going to have to start over with any diy rock that gets broken, expecially when the break exposes large sections of cement deep within your diy rock. That's one reason why I try to stay away from thick rocks. They usually have a much longer curing time in FW.

The problem would be much less noticeable in a larger system. The smaller the system the larger the impact on your water's pH.

KafudaFish · #**999** 10/17/2006, 12:39 PM

Before I cut it I wondered if it would spike and need to cure again. I guess I was right. The rock I made at the same time is hanging out in the 8 range. The slab is only 11.5" x 7.5" x 1.5" so it should cycle quickly.
Because this is for such a small tank I am taking it very slowly. I really am not in any rush to start the other tank because of my other tanks. This is more of an experiment as anything else.
If necessary I can stick the slab in either my 95 system or my 29 just to see if it spikes in the salt water before I start the 2.5. Thanks.

JohnL · #**1000** 10/17/2006, 12:40 PM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=952524