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#1
05/07/2004, 09:23 PM
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How Much More to Go BIG?
I readabout people selling their big tank because they went broke trying to set it up...what are really the cost in going big?
I'm at 90 gal right now...I'd like to go 180 or 240... Are the real costs set-up and being over ambitious with livstock purchases, running costs, etc? Allperspectives welcome... I'm a used-or -off-the-shelf-glass tank with rubbermaid sump kinda gal...I can reuse my IceCap 660, and add one or two (used) MHs...all my corals come from frags (most from trades)...what am I really in for?? Thanks, India |
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#2
05/07/2004, 10:34 PM
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As near as I can tell, the costs are close to linearly proportional to the tank size. Double the size and you double the tank cost, double the water, double the live rock, double the fish, etc. Yes, there are economies of scale for some things... offset by the much higher cost of "custom" others. That assumes you don't change the structure of your house to accomodate it, which can get arbitrarily expensive.
You can save a lot by going "standard off the shelf" for everything. DIY is fun but rarely saves money. Getting someone to do custom work will blow the budget every time. I can't begin to tell you how much my tank cost. I stopped counting a long time ago... otherwise I would have had to stop the project. Of course, most people don't build a house around the aquarium.  BTW, if you move up, I suggest keeping your old tank for quarantine. It's about the right size. Then you should buy another one for a fuge (see how it adds up!  ).
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Stuart |
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#3
05/07/2004, 10:51 PM
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Some of your costs will rise with the size of your tank(10% water change).Some will not be more if you go a little wider or a little longer.MH's of a given number will light a tank 2' front to back as well as a tank 3' front to back maybe more.In this case you could have 50% more water but only buy the same lights.Space your lights out a bit and go longer.You only need one controller (for most).It works the same on 200's or 500's.You will need a bigger chiller but the big ones come in 220 volt so they are more energy efficent than 110v.I recommend Icecap 400's in 220 volts.You need more substrate and rock but if you stock lightly you will get lots of flow between rock piles.You may not have to go up too much on pumps.Dophin has the same motor running several pumps from 2100gph to over twice that.The bigger ones do not cost much more.You can put into a tank what you want.A bigger this and that will cost more but with the sizes you are talking about not too much more.If you really want to go big without going broke make sure you can wait if needed and it sounds like you are frugal.Some ways to save on a big tank is do not go too high as the thickness of the tank walls really drives up the price fast.Going from 2' front to back to 3' or even 4' will not cost that much more.Put the same gallons vertical and it will costs much more.Do you plumb and wire yourself or do you hire someone to do this.I hired because I did not know what the equipment was but I do now and am doing some of my own plumbing and such on additions.
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Lloyd |
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#4
05/07/2004, 11:30 PM
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the cost will rise in the maintenance of the tank, mainly electricity as you will need more lights , the initial cost will be more offcourse since is a bigger tank more livestock to add.
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Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio |
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#5
05/07/2004, 11:40 PM
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I move very slowly, and learn by doing my own...my systems are simple...I did my own lighting, set up a refugium/sump, and made it with Rubbermaid, notched plastic pitchers as intake and outgo sections, etc...It runs with a Light of America from Home Depot...I made my top-off system. I do spend on good pumps, replacing heaters periodically, and I've learned to use good bulbs (I used to overdrive NOs for economy - not worth it!) I don't have a controller. I use simple timers, but splurged on a used Solar dimmer for the VHOs...I'm still figuring out how to install it)...I use simple KMart timers, got a good deal on Moonlight...I bought a used Remora Pro - I'd have to upgrade that.
By not using MH, I don't need a chiller (with a bigger tank, I might add one 175 for the colored acros, and leave VHO everywhere else)...I'm happy @ 24" deep - my arm won't go much longer than that... I use a simple Tunze for circulation, good live rock (bought it second hand), and a deep deep DSB - the Mafia could dump bodies in my tank, and they'd be gone by morning! I think I could go big and still keep it simple... |
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#7
05/08/2004, 12:38 PM
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India, i went from 30 to 55 to 90 to 135 and finally to my 350. This will be my last tank upgrade unless i win the lottery. It wasnt as simple as saying "supersize" everything. I too thought i can DIY to save money. Although i built my own stand, the cost of material, tools and time didnt save me much. Keep in mind that when you skimp, it will reflect on your tank...and this imperfection compels us to spend more money in the long run for better hardware and specimens. Afterall why come all this way to have a mediocre tank. And then you start thinking...what if a disaster strikes? With $1000s invested already you will spend more money on safety measures....preventive measures. Thats why i never have had to use a chiller here in socal until my 350...cant take the chance anymore....too much invested. And the chiller's heat makes my house much warmer than before....Hmmmmm AC unit is howling outside. I also have a power generator at the ready at all times. But mine is a SPS tank which cant be compared to a FO.
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#8
05/08/2004, 04:05 PM
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you can go without a chiller in an FO setup, so you don't have to worry about that. Plus the kind of lighting you can have on a FO tank provides a lot less heat and you don't need to add more powerheads as you would in a reef tank.
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Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio |
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#9
05/11/2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
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#10
05/11/2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
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#11
05/11/2004, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
IMO you might want to re-think the 175, you will not get far in the way of acro's, with only one on a 180, again JMO. |
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#13
05/11/2004, 08:19 PM
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I paid over $50/gallon that was ready for water ,substrate and rock.Granted I had the fish store do it all for me as I knew nothing about the things they put on the tank.No livestock in that figure .The electrician hit me for $700 with all the power set up.I really do not want to know how much since the water went in.I think with my electricity at $.07/kwh I pay $2 something a day in power for my big tank.I wish I could find a utility bill from a year ago with only 6 tanks and see what my 300 did.
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Lloyd |
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#15
05/11/2004, 09:45 PM
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I have gone from a 110 gal to a 280 gal, and I have spent $8000 for equipment and supplies (that includes reusing all that I can, like lights, seaswirls and using the 110 as a fuge), and I've done all the work myself, including, demolition, drywalling, running elecrical and all the plumbing and I still have to buy the live rock. When I'm done, I won't have any cash for new livestock for a while.
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#16
05/11/2004, 09:50 PM
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i fyou put all the money in at once is hard but doing it in small steps will be better although it will take longer it won't put such a huge dent in your wallet, although i did the same thing with my tank when i upgraded, you live and you learn.
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Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio |
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#17
05/12/2004, 01:01 AM
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i don't think big tanks are proportional with small tanks.
i can get a 10g tank for $10 and a 33 gallon for about $45. i notice that as the tank size increases, the price increases at a disproportionate ratio. i get most of my main equipment used but in excellent condition. my 180 lee mar euro, new would go for about $1100. i did not pay that much. a 1/2 hp chiller is way more expensive than a 1/4 hp chiller. skimmers? a nice euroreef for 100g or less, resonable. 300 and over? sell off your retirement funds. let's not even get into lighting. electricity will cost you the more than any equipment ever will. my annual electricity bill here in socal has surpassed what i paid for in all the equipment. so, in short, big tanks are not for the faint at heart. lots of money BUT also lots of enjoyment. once you get past the hurdle of set up costs....the amount of money spent on the inhabitants can reach stratospheric proportions. note my red ricordea yuma rock in my avatar. price? don't ask. even i dont want to know. my little deep water colini angel? again, way more than i would spend on a fish as i am a coral guy but there he is! costs will always be a factor. heck, i would love to do a 10g nano. it wouldnt be that expensive to set up BUT what i want to put in there would be very very expensive...so i am not setting one up! collect your equipment and stuff in steps, like julio said. it will be easier on your wallet and your stress. one does not need all the fancy equipment people are always talking about...streams, reactors etc. they help a lot but it is not absolutely required for a beautiful and successful reef. patience, care and knowledge will get you farther than any piece of wonder equipment. i dont smoke, drink, gamble or have any other expensive habits. it keeps me home with the wife and i love it. so, in short, it saves me money (from other vices) and my wife loves that i stay at home. hth. smoke 'em if you got 'em!
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...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and... Ben. |
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#20
05/12/2004, 04:10 AM
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Reusing everything you have. I would say for a 180 gallon tank another 3000 for equipment and another grand for liverock and stock.
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Experience is the best source of information! |
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#21
05/12/2004, 04:50 PM
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For my tank, which is a 500gal my budget for everything except live stock (fish and coral) is/was $15,000. After I buy my $2000 worth of live rock I will be at that budget maybe a tad over or under. That price does not include the cost of buliding the equipment room which includes the room it self,epoxy covered flooring, floor drain, electrical-4 20amp circuits, multi port exaust fan with humdistat, solartube for some extra free light and the stand as this was lumped into the price of the house when it was built.
The only thing I'm using from my old tank which has been broken down for almost 2 years is about 150lbs of live rock which is dead now. Steve P.s. then of course I have the solar panels to make some extra electricity for this beast but thats a whole differnt thing...
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Salt-Reefer |
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