Beloved Anemone

[Jared Cooper]

Anemone-
Well put, I got to say I agree with what you said. I guess I am mostly venting, cause I'm just tired of hearing people tell others how irresponsible it is to ever have an anemone. Especially when I have had success with mine over the past 2 years. As well as hearing of a lot success from friends and local people. I've lost some corals and fish in my early days as a reefer, yet my anemonies always do well. Thanks for not taking anything I said personal. Cause after I re-read what i wrote, i thought my post 'sounded' cranky.

[Kimmy]

Tang Heaven.. Bend is beautiful country!! We ski Mt Bachelor at least twice a year. More when money allows..expensive sport. Worse than reefkeeping!! Corvallis is 10 minutes away from here. Next time you come and visit your son..give me a call. The fish guy I was refering to is here in Albany. He sells healthy healthy fish so inexpensively that you won't believe it. Haitian Anenomes $3.00..Tangs and Angels..$12.00 Clownfish (all types) $5.00 The list goes on and on. He also sells his heaters , powerheads, ect at about a third what evryone else in town does. We'll go there sometime!! As for the clown issue..I have clowns in all three of my tanks..two tanks have anenomes that the clowns do hang out in but the third one is in a fish only tank and he hans out in a big plastic plant that I have in the center of the tank. He doesn't seem stressed to me. He is always the first one out at feeding time Kimmy

[Angel*Fish]

Thanks, TangHeaven! You are right! Everyone has been relatively subtle about the anemone in the wild issue... I appreciate the info.. Had no idea they live so long and had never given a thought as to depriving clowns of safety...

Will work to try to be educated before future purchases and I appreciate the help. If I had been "flamed" I wouldn't have learned a thing.

This is a huge world, no one can know everything about everthing -- we should not be made to feel ashamed in our search for info. into a new area.

What burns me up is when I see people ignore the basic info offered to them and just do what ever they want anyway (saw someone buy two fish that were going to kill each other against advice of LFS)

[Angel*Fish]

TangHeaven, thanks, you are exactly right! If I had been "flamed" too badly, I wouldn't have learned a thing.

If we are made to feel foolish in our search for information, many of us will find it not worth the effort.

Those who really care about these issues are the ones who would lose out.Prior to this, I had never given the least thought as to depriving clown fish of their safety in the wild and I sure didn't know that anemones live so long! (That's not good news in the aptasia dept. -- I have 4 HUGE ones)

I don't feel too bad about my ignorance -- no one can know everything about everything. But I will definitely do my best to educate myself before making any further purchases.

There is quite a lot to learn in this hobby which makes it next to impossible for beginners to know everything important. Most of us are overwhelmed with lighting concerns, fish compatibility, etc. (& how to get the mantis out!).

[Angel*Fish]

Sorry, don't know what happened -- when I was "taken to my post" it wasn't there -- now they are both there

[Angel*Fish]

Kimmy, thanks for your observation...

Is it possible that the plant is an adequate substitute then? Does the clown "feel" protected in other words? -------

-------Whereas in the wild he must actually BE protected?

Anemone, thanks also... since the clowns are so "reproduction" happy, do you think they could be "UN-happy" without a mate?

[Kimmy]

Montisigogo, I think my clown DOES feel protected in his plastic plant. I aven see him put food in its branchs. Silly clown. I read on a different thread that people have actually put Koosh balls in their tanks and the clowns will play in them as well. I haven't tried that one yet!! Good luck!!

[mastaJ]

Well, I have never had a anem. in my tank/s so I can't comment about them. However, my tank-raised/bred clown has been happy as far as I can tell. I'm still waiting for him to go to my tank-raised leather corals With tank-raised clowns I don't see why they NEED an anem. because they have never seen ANY anem. in there life nor have there parents i bet.

Originally posted by mantisagogo
What burns me up is when I see people ignore the basic info offered to them and just do what ever they want anyway (saw someone buy two fish that were going to kill each other against advice of LFS)

Burns me too!!!

[clownman]

I have a True Percula and a Pacific Long Tenticle Anemone in a 37 Gallon Tank.

--Anemone has gone through some nightmare of getting stuck on Powerhead and skimmer ...lost some tenticles but now doing well (and powerhead off the tank) . Doing well probably over rated....he's all spread out rather than closed up when he first got hurt


Anyway, my curiousity is, why isn't my percula going to the Anemone? Is it because he's just 3 days in the tank and did not figure out where the Anemone is or because the anemone is moving around a lot? Or could it be, since the anemone has been injured, clown is avoiding it purposely?

I am with those who thinks that anemone should not be purchased for LFS, so they don't have more excuse to catch anemone from the natural environment.

"Somebody" bought it for me with the Percula when I didn't even completely finish cycling

Also, I have two Porcupinefishes (2" each) in that 37 gallon which I in a way rescued. (that's another long story).

Anyway, please give me all the advice you can. Especially, tell me why clown is not attracted to the anemone ...is it normal or need more time?


R,

[Anemone]

Originally posted by clownman
I have a True Percula and a Pacific Long Tenticle Anemone in a 37 Gallon Tank.

Anyway, my curiousity is, why isn't my percula going to the Anemone? Is it because he's just 3 days in the tank and did not figure out where the Anemone is or because the anemone is moving around a lot? Or could it be, since the anemone has been injured, clown is avoiding it purposely?

Anyway, please give me all the advice you can. Especially, tell me why clown is not attracted to the anemone ...is it normal or need more time?

Well, it's quite possible that you do not have the clown's natural host. Although some clowns will accept different hosts in the aquarium than in nature, many times they won't.

Then again, you may very well not have a true percula (many, many ocellaris are sold as true percs).

Check here and see if you can identify your anemone and the clown(s) it may natually host.

http://www.amdareef.com/ho_anemones.htm

Kevin

[Angel*Fish]

mastaJ, you bring up a very interesting point...

I'm thinking that a clown fish has an inborn instinctive "urge" for an anemone(or subst.) . It certainly seems possible that an ocean captured clown would be much more likely to have this urge intact: those that survive and produce offspring would ordinarily have obtained an anemone. If they have to fight to obtain one, then certainly the ones w/the strongest affinity for anemones would reproduce.

It certainly seems likely that tankbred clowns could have this anemone urge diluted and even lost and thus not "feel" threatened or unsafe without one.

I had a mixed breed cat once who caught mice (in the woods) regularly and ate them (it was gross - ) My Persian cat who has been bred to look like he bumped into too many walls and has more fur than any cat could take care of without human help, wouldn't catch a mouse even if he knew how, he's interested but completely unmotivated.

clownman, do you know if your fish is captured or tank bred? Have you tried feeding him in very close proximity to the anemone? I like to speculate, but really am nothing close to being an expert, I can tell you that when my maroon clown was put in the tank, as soon as he saw the BTA you could almost see a lightbulb flash over his head , Then he made about 2 passes near it and then practically dove in and ever since has only left it to grab some food -- for all he knows, he's living in a big 150g.

[clownman]

Its really hard to tell. Unless somebody can suggest how to determine if it was tank raised or caught from the wild.

I just called the LFS (30 seconds ago) to find out that all their Percula's are Tank raised (not by them, but the dealer who distribute them). He said, false percula doesn't have the white line all connected as oppose to True Percula (Amphiprion Ocellaris). Who know if he's being honest!

My Anemone look just like Pink tip anemone, but doesn't have pink tip ....(according to LFS Guy and my receipet, it is Pacific Long Tenticle Anemone) and Clown should pick it as the host.

My Clown just staying in the upper level of the aquarium and not even coming close to it. (He's not feeding well)

My pH 8.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10 (I need to lower it)
Amonia 0
Salinity 1.024

4" Sandbed 15lbs Reef Sand+46lbs Fiji Livesand (approx 8 hermits) and some other creature came with LR.

As I mentioned 37 Gallon Tank but anemone and clown will soon be moved to at least 180 Gallon Tank as soon as I resolve a problem with a seller at the moment.

[jimmy n]

I believe that most will argue as has already been done that taking anemones from the wild removes a resource that slowly renews itself and can be considered essential to the health of the host anemonefish.

Anthropomorphism, or attributing human emotions such as "happy" or "feels" to fish is not accepted, and cannot be used to keep an anemone with a host. I would try a different phrase such as; my clownfish appears to be thriving in his host anemone relationship. Brings an air of legitimacy to the conversation (although my spelling of the word anthropomorphism takes away any claim to being legitimate, I have little leftover from my biology major days).


Jim

[mastaJ]

Originally posted by clownman
I just called the LFS (30 seconds ago) to find out that all their Percula's are Tank raised (not by them, but the dealer who distribute them). He said, false percula doesn't have the white line all connected as oppose to True Percula (Amphiprion Ocellaris). Who know if he's being honest!

LOL... A. ocellaris is "False Percula"
A. Percula is "True Percula"
True Percs have black in them. Check out here for id... http://www.orafarm.com/clownfish.html

Good site: http://www.keil.ukans.edu/ebooks/ch2.html#percu
Another: http://www.keil.ukans.edu/ebooks/ch1.html

[Anemone]

Thanks MastaJ,

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that the LFS guy says all his clowns are true percula clowns, Amphiron ocellaris

Clownman,

Did you check the link and see if you could identify which anemone you actually have? The anemone descriptions are not too bad, and may point out right off the bat what the problem is....and you might start visiting another LFS for second opinions.....

Kevin

[clownman]

Its really funny and unfortunately, I did not have the knowledge to catch him right then. He even gave me the spelling of it so I could learn about it by searching the web.

Anyway, I think that I do not have a percula. I do have a Ocellaris Fish as mine look just like this

Since he's small, hard to tell though....

I'm not unhappy though as I like this just as much. For other newbie like me, here's a True Percula


Beside the black line/shade next to white line, what are the major differences?

[clownman]

I take that back. As I came home and looked at him very closely and he has a black line next to his white marks (just like the pic above). So, it is a True Percula

[clownman]

My anemone look like this



Its not the picture of my Long Tenticled Anemone, but mine look just like this one

[TangHeaven]

Clownman...your anemone should not be moving around the tank. Its trying to tell you that its not happy...it needs something. What type of lights do you have? Are you feeding it? Plus you have two Porcupinefishes in the tank...they could very well be picking on it. They are not a reef fish...and I'm wondering since your on the reef thread if you plan on keeping corals? They will have breakfast, lunch and dinner...on your corals...

The anemones like light....if your running NO's try to get it up high...I FED mine shrimp every other day...A healthy anemone will have a good color...the lighter it gets the closer to death its becoming....

Everything that I have read states that the clarkii's are the best for anemones. I have two, and I lost my anemones when they got into " I want that rock" fight..I didn't replace them after all that I read...but I have a colt that they love...

[Anemone]

If I had to guess, I'd say you had this....

" Macrodactyla doreensis , Long Tentacle Anemone - Column always red or salmon pink, with veruccae underneath oral disk. Buries column in substrate. Seldom confused. Natural symbionts are Clark's and Pink Skunk clownfishes; in aquarium often accepted by Maroon, Bluestripe and Tomato clowns, as well. "

Otherwise, it might be....

" Heteractis crispa , Purple Long Tentacle Anemone, Leathery Anemone - Column tough, leathery, and buried in substrate. Tentalces long and pointed, often bright purple in color. Not common in trade. Hosts Clark's, Bluestripe, True Percula, Pink Skunk and Saddleback clownfishes. "

Both quotes taken from the above referenced web site, authored by John Tullock.

Kevin

[clownman]

At first, I was waiting on my 220 Gallon Reef Ready Tank...

Now, I am in the process of going to a legal battle with the seller

So, the tank I got for my future Quarintine Tank, I turned that into my training tank. However, getting the porcupine fishes were nearly an act of rescue (whole another story) but looking for good home or might trade them with a LFS. I continously observed to see if they were doing any harm, but wasn't. (2" in size)

By the way, anemone seems to have settled down between two liverock. I have not feed it as I was suppose to. But will try to put a shrimp or small fish in it.

Lighting is not intense as anemone require. Quite frankly, I also was not prepared for Fish or Anemone as I am not quite done with my cycling. Somebody gave me those as a gift

Anyway, hoping to resolve my problem with tank and get at least (minimum) 180 with 400W lighting where I will transfer the anemone.

[clownman]

Anemone,
By the way, I have looked at the page right away as you shared it. Thank you as it was a very useful information. I guessed that to be the first one.

regards

[Angel*Fish]

jimmy n: For your information my GS Maroon Clown really does have light bulbs coming out of his head when he has a great idea. Also, it is not anthropomorphizing to use words like "happy" in reference to these creatures if they can actually articulate these feelings verbally in English, which all of mine can.

I always know when a brine shrimp-- oh, sorry -- that's "Artemia" to you -- is about to get eaten because most of them usually try to say a quick prayer first.

Also-- I would like to thank you for defining "anthropomorphism" to all of us who are just too uneducated to understand such big words.

You know, I think everybody here except you understood what I meant with terms like "happy", etc... And what is this "is not accepted " business???? I'm not writing an article for a scientific journal !!!

Your post is just a little too condescending for my taste. And in case you are still in the dark -- "is happy" is short for "seems to be thriving in his host anemone relationship".

[jimmy n]

Magogo,

Not trying to be condescending. Sorry you were offended, just trying to summarize what I have seen of the anemone/clownfish argument in the past. I feel that applying expression and emotion to fish weakens even a legitimate argument.

If you have further issues, please feel free to email me at my provided address.

Jim

[Kimmy]

I know what you mean Montisigogo..I am convinced that my clown is in love with his anenome!! Oh the way he looks at it....tee hee