Reef Farm Business Plan - Page 3

WarDaddy · #51 10/17/2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickyfins
I used to live near a large greenhouse facility that was in a rural location. I know that they didn't even lock the doors to the green houses not even at night. They had over a dozen houses. Now they didn't sell corals, but all flowers, plants, and seasonal growths. I think that there would be more of a demand for higher security in that sort of business than in a coral farmer biz. I know our stock and supplies are costly, but in rural locations one can skimp a bit on security because of the lack of foes.

thanks,

Rick

I wish you were right. There are people out there, that once they know where you are, will drive an hour or hours to get those prettly blue acros that they do not want to pay $60 for a 1/2" frag. And if they think they can walk away with a bucket full of stuff like that, they will come, and they will steal. There are countless stories about people who have had stuff taken out of their tanks when they turned their backs, for just a minute.

In a hobby ans expensive as this one, there will be people willing to steal, no matter how far out into the rural they have to go.

Sad times these!

Philip Root · #52 10/17/2006, 09:57 PM

I wonld not lock the doors on my greenhouse beacuse if someone was going to seal something they will go in through the walls, so to save the walls I will not lock the door. For me the best way to keep frag snachers out of the place is don't let anyone know where my greenhouse is located. My greenhouse is in the woods not visable from any road. Fence is good, but...

I have had many corals walk away, some large, some small, some worth 5$ some worth $100's if not 1000's. I feel that when they were stolen I was close by. Either on the phone, talking, or doning a water change when the coral walked out. Most times when I was at the different stores I had between 1000 and 2000 corals at one point. At one time I had over 10,000 pices for me to see over , and for me to have noticed 5 or 10 a month, I must have been bing robbed of many more. This is why other than the people who work for me only 2 other people know where the greenhouse is. I make everyone sign papers to say they are not to tell anyone. It gets the point across.

Steven Pro · #53 10/18/2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philip Root
For me the best way to keep frag snachers out of the place is don't let anyone know where my greenhouse is located.

Ditto

Whaledriver · #54 10/18/2006, 10:06 AM

You could always put up a pc based security camera system. It should cost under a grand for about 10 cameras. If something goes missing just go back and look. They also have cheap night cameras

Qwiv · #55 10/18/2006, 12:05 PM

Just wanted to say that sharing the work and knowlege you put into this task is quite generouse of you. I think the community thanks you.

I do think you need to include contingency items in your buisness plan. Mostly, I would consider a generator. The loss of power for more than a few hours would set back your opperation months.

Good luck with your project/buisness.

Steven Pro · #56 10/18/2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaledriver
You could always put up a pc based security camera system. It should cost under a grand for about 10 cameras. If something goes missing just go back and look. They also have cheap night cameras

Motion activated lighting is probably another good idea.

Stoney Mahony · #57 10/18/2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Pro
Motion activated lighting is probably another good idea.

100% Agree! I have thought about this alot. Im going to use motion sensing Flood lights which are super cheap b/c they hardly ever come on, door sensors, small motion detecting cameras and build a 10ft chain link fence around the perimeter topped with some good ol razor wire. I think they will be calling it the Stoney compound. Getting corals over a 10ft fence is not going to be easy or quiet! My wife and I also have a doberman that we love to death and are thinking about possibly breeding her in the future. If we do, I will keep several of the puppies and when they grow a bit, they can help me keep watch. I can put in a doggy door in with a run going from my house to the inside of the GH. As long as I train them good when there young, they wont be pooing around the GH

raaden · #58 10/19/2006, 07:34 AM

As far as physical security is concerned, for the initial setup, I am not as worried about it as I will be later on. For the first I am in a pretty remote area wayy off the road. I think the obfuscation will be enough. I have gotten lost myself going there a couple of times. Once I move to a commercial location I will definitely invest in some security, but fences and razorwire is so boring. I may just go the booby trap route, you know some holes in the ground with grass over them or boulders and trip wires. Something to make it interesting

. I originally didn't consider the security aspect of it and was hoping to actually invite people over on a regular basis (groups and clubs), but have since changed my mind about that and will have to see how it goes. I have to agree that it is quite a shame that something like this has to be done. I know a lady with 2 greenhouses 20x50 each that at any one point will have $60k worth of orchids in them and she doesn't have to worry about this. I'm not sure if it is the clientele she has or what but she has been doing this for many many years with no problems

Phillip brings up a good point and something that I think Rick Rottet or Treeman mentioned. Locking the door is just asking for trouble. If someone wants to get in bad enough they will find the easiest way in, and slicing the covering is not out of the question so I would rather lose a few hundred in stock then to have the whole system crash from someone ripping the covering in the winter and have the place freeze. Not to mention the covering and time to replace it is well over a grand.

On a happier note, Phillip how is your setup progressing. Last time I saw you were just getting ready to start constructions. Hope it is going well.

Whaledriver · #59 10/19/2006, 12:00 PM

I would definitely get a backup natural gas propane automatic generator. 10,000 watts should keep things going as long as you need and only cost about $5,000 installed. Imagine if you cant get power for days on end and you are not able to get top the greenhouse?

hamburglar · #60 10/19/2006, 12:29 PM

you could throw some ill tempered trigger fish in some of the vats

One other idea is openly discussing your other hobbies. For example....I compete in local tactical shooting competitions. This means big mean fast guns, concealed weapons permit, and nearly unlimited ammo since I reload. I never did try to lock my greenhouse, but I am a very light sleeper

raaden · #61 10/19/2006, 01:28 PM

Those are both really good ideas. Let me start with the first. I priced out the generator and for 8.5kw propane permanent generator the cost was closer to $8K installed to the fusebox. This is a huge portion of my budget but as WD mentioned the potential losses are much larger. To get over the cost I looked at it like insurance and spread it out over the life of the structres and it looks more like $100/mo. This to me is absolutely necessary with the storms and other potentials that will inevitably knock the power out sometime in 5 years.

As for the hobbies I forgot to mention that I will also be culturing a potentially deadly ebola virus, on the other side of the GH, and I will be breeding copperheads for fun and profit in the area around the GH,

so feel free to stop by whenever

Whaledriver · #62 10/19/2006, 02:06 PM

I got a Generac 7000 watt gas/propane automatic generator with the fuse switch box at Home depot last year on sale for $2000 dollars. I don't know what the install costs is yet. I have seen to many flooded basements not to have one and the loss of my aquarium livestock would be horrible.

Philip Root · #63 10/19/2006, 02:13 PM

Well, the greenhouse is built and corals are inside. I am very impressed in my designs. Ok that sounds a bit aarrogant , but I think the simpler the designs the better everthing will be. Mine is about as simple as it gets. The website www.thecoralgardens.com has all the updates except for the last few weeks. Let me know what you think.

Philip

hamburglar · #64 10/19/2006, 06:29 PM

That is a very nice looking greenhouse Philip!

Raaden, are you planning on having your swamp coolers built into the end wall like philip has pictured? By the way.....very good idea about the coperheads. I'm not setting foot near your place now

raaden · #65 10/19/2006, 08:05 PM

Phillip, very nice setup. How much of the construction did you do yourself, and how many people did you have help you for the construction of the GH. I am trying to guage how many people I should con... umm I mean, recruit to help me with mine. That looks very similar to what I am looking to put up. I hadn't planned on putting a rollup door on it but thinking about it that might make alot of sense.

Ham, the evap he shows looks to be the same one that I am planning on (which incidentally was the heart of the problem I had in getting mine). I am also guessing (based on the size of the door and the spans) that the GH is pretty close to the same size(maybe a bit shorter on the long wall, but close) as I am looking at 24x52.

That is an excellent price on the generator. I may have to check at HD. The price I got was from an equipment dealer and probably was higher than I could get at HD. I am not sure what the cost to install the generator was because I got a quote for an electrician to do all the work at the same time, and the gas company said they would run to the generator for free since I was getting new service from them. If I had to guess I would put about 6-800 on the install, depending on code, but I think if you have any skills in the electrical dept. you could do it yourself.

Philip Root · #66 10/20/2006, 09:25 AM

John and myself did everything. There was a few times that a third person whould have helped but not too many. The green house people told me I would need 10 people to put the plastic on. What a joke John and myself did it in very little time. The constrection took about 3 full weeks.

Philip

jrodscout · #67 10/20/2006, 09:50 AM

Raaden thanks for sharing your plans with us.Im just finished designing my tanks for my GH this week and hoping to break ground next month.
Philip how are those plywood tanks holding up for you?
Im fiberglassing over mine.Also thanks for the pics on your website.I have been following along with great interest.I particularly appreciate your airlift pics & setup.

jrodscout · #68 10/20/2006, 09:57 AM

Can you explain the benefit of those evaporating units pictured in the GH? Im not familiar with that setup.

Philip Root · #69 10/20/2006, 11:26 AM

It cools the air in the greenhouse. It takes energy to everapate water. The energy comes from the air cooling the air.

WarDaddy · #70 10/20/2006, 11:35 AM

how well does cooling like that work on the hot and humid South?

Qwiv · #71 10/20/2006, 11:37 AM

They don't work well in humid enviroments.

Philip Root · #72 10/20/2006, 11:38 AM

Not like it dose in a hot dry place, but it dose cool to a point that I can deal with.

hamburglar · #73 10/20/2006, 01:05 PM

Yes even in humid eastern NC they would be better than simply pulling in 90 degree air on a hot summer day.

Redox had some very interesting ideas before about pulling in air from cool places.....like under a house or something like that. It would be neat to see if you could bury something like drain pipe in the ground and use geothermal to slightly cool the air that you take in.

raaden · #74 10/20/2006, 01:35 PM

There is a really good discussion around here somewhere and I think it is linked from somewhere in Ricks greenhouse thread, but it gives you all you want to know about evap coolers.
The major idea is that you are evaporating water off the pad which cools the pad and in turn cools the air coming into the GH. This only works if you are moving a large amount of air through the pad which is why you need such a large area of the GH to contain the pad. The humidity is a concern but unless your humidity tops 90% it will still be relatively effective in cooling if sized properly.

The three major things with Evap coolers are[list=1][*]They are very efficient if you have the climate to use them[*]They provide cool wet air (which can absorb much more atmospheric heat than cool dry air, and less makeup water needed from the tanks)[*]There is little to no maintenance for them as well besides descaling once or twice a year. [/list=1]

Phillip,
That is good news on the labor. I think the most I will be able to get is 2 other people and that may be for only a couple of days. I don't mind the hard work I was just afraid there was some things that just couldn't be done with 2 people.

Stoney Mahony · #75 10/20/2006, 02:14 PM

Tell me about it! It's alot different putting it together in your mind then it is putting it together on your farm. Ill bet everybody here has gone over there plans 1000's of times and then when everything gets there it's like WHOA! Thats awesome you did that with so little man power Philliproot. Did you guys get any kind of warranty with your greenhouse? I think treeman was saying he had one but since he didnt full document the construction with tons of pics and a bunch of other crap, the greenhouse company wouldnt cover it. You guys make me drool everyday with all these pics! I love your setup Phill, low cost high production....Yeah baby!!

Oh yeah...I have worked in alot of geenhouses around the central florida area and those puppies are like saunas! 100% humidity most of the year. With salt water, anything you put in there thats not stainless is gonna rust so fast it will make your head spin! Meters? Bye bye! those will go too unless you enclose them in a nema WP enclosure or there waterproof.