Need help with water chemistry.....

Mooch18 · #1 10/31/2006, 08:57 PM

Hey guys,

I have had my tank for 8 months now, and just can't get things right. I need help....lol. Ok, so let me tell you about my tank.....

110 gallon with 30 gallon sump
240 lbs of live rock, with no corals, FOWLR (for now......)
ASM G2 skimmer
Two 250 watt DE pendants on cie cap ballasts, and 14K phoenix bulbs.
45 times turnover, thanks to 1200 gph return, and two seio pumps (1100 ad 2500)
RO/DI unit

Now i have been using IO salt, but have always noticed low calcium levels, and mag levels. So i made the switch to Seachem Reef just recently. I have been dosing C-balance for a few months now, which may be my problem, but not sure. I have no corals, and coraline is NOT growing at all, so i may have been adding calcium and alk for no reason. Anyways, water levels are as follows.....

390-400 calcium
3.5 Alkalinity (mg/l)
1300 Magnesium
less then .05 phosphates
1.025 salinty
8.1 PH

Test kits i use to measure (i realize some are accurate, some not)

Seachem for Calcium
Seachem for PH and ALK
Salifert for magnesium
Elos for phosphate

All test kits are less then 2 months old.

My problems.......

1. Coraline just won't grow. Not on glass, rock, nothing. What ever is there has either not grown, faded in colour, or just remained the same.

2. Lately the calcium part of my C-balance has been clumping in the water upon contact. It just shrivels up into smal white fluf, almost looks like cotton. When i add Alk nothing happens.

Anyone have any idea whats going on??

nmprisons · #2 10/31/2006, 09:35 PM

Did you shake up your C-Balance really well before using it the first time and every time since?

It sounds like you are precipitating calcium.

You might want to raise your alkalinity a little bit, but I am no expert. To do that, you can just dose part B for a few days.

Your parameters seem fine, the coraline will grow. I had an emerald crab that would only eat coraline. Do you have an urchin or something that might be eating it?

Mooch18 · #3 10/31/2006, 09:45 PM

Shake i do.

Nothing in my tank eats coraline. I only have trochus snails, and hermits.......

nmprisons · #4 10/31/2006, 10:16 PM

your parameters seem fine to me, the coraline will come ... it goes through die-off cycles

PatMayo · #5 10/31/2006, 10:47 PM

I have never had a die off cycle of coralline. Sometimes I wish I would. It is growing like mad. I have never figured out how to do that.

I think your parameters are fine. You may get some scrapings from someone else's tank to seed your. I have not done anything special to my tank except to skim very good and watch the food. I try to keep nutrients low which may help the coralline. Not sure.

I don't know that I would do anything at all. Just time.

Regards,

Pat

Tbduval · #6 10/31/2006, 11:00 PM

Coraline cant grow from nothing. You really need to seed the tank like PatMayo said. Then keep you water within NSW and you are all good.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #7 11/01/2006, 08:24 AM

2. Lately the calcium part of my C-balance has been clumping in the water upon contact. It just shrivels up into smal white fluf, almost looks like cotton. When i add Alk nothing happens.

You sure you have the parts correct? The alkalinity part of many two part additives should look like this when added (before mixing in well), but the calcium part is normally clear and stays clear:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

jiggly75 · #8 11/01/2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tbduval
Coraline cant grow from nothing. You really need to seed the tank like PatMayo said. Then keep you water within NSW and you are all good.

I agree

Mooch18 · #9 11/01/2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
2. Lately the calcium part of my C-balance has been clumping in the water upon contact. It just shrivels up into smal white fluf, almost looks like cotton. When i add Alk nothing happens.

You sure you have the parts correct? The alkalinity part of many two part additives should look like this when added (before mixing in well), but the calcium part is normally clear and stays clear:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

The Alk does look like that picture above, and yes im sure it's the calcium. The calcium is pretty clear like you say normally. But for some reason, it is clumping instantantly when making contact with water.........

Mooch18 · #10 11/01/2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tbduval
Coraline cant grow from nothing. You really need to seed the tank like PatMayo said. Then keep you water within NSW and you are all good.

I have twice seeded my tank with rocks covered in coraline. Infact, i placed them in a high flow area, but have yet to see it spread....

Mooch18 · #11 11/01/2006, 09:22 AM

Guys, where is the best place to add C-balance anyways?? In sump, were flow is low, or straight into the main tank where flow is high??

Will it dissolve better in a low flow area??

Randy Holmes-Farley · #12 11/01/2006, 09:53 AM

It should dissolve OK most anywhere, but if the sump flow is low, be sure to wait an adequately long time for one part to flush out before adding the next one.

IMO, it would be better to risk some calcium carbonate deposition in the sump than to risk concentrated additives getting onto a delicate organism before mixing in well. But if you have a high flow area away from organisms, the main tank is likely fine too.

PatMayo · #13 11/01/2006, 09:55 AM

You need to add it into the area with the highest flow. The faster you can get it mixed up the better off you are. I drip mine in 24/7. I drip the alk and calk in the main tank on opposite sides of the tank. My limewater drip is in the sump in the same area where the skimmer resides.

Regards,

Pat

Mooch18 · #14 11/01/2006, 04:06 PM

Hey guys,

checked my levels again today, and they are as follows.....

350 calcium
3.5 mg/l Alk
1380 Magnesium

Calcium is low, should i raise it??

Spuds725 · #15 11/01/2006, 05:07 PM

I have no experience with Seachem test kits but I suspect one or both is giving you false high readings and one or both of your actual readings are too low to support coraline growth..

If you have any coraline then it should spread if your levels are good--- I was in the same boat as yo a while back-- my API calcium read 400, but was only 350 ppm when tested by Salifert--- after raising it to 380-400, my coraline growth took off...

IMO-- your lack of growth is a better indicator of them being low then any results a test kit will give you...

Retest with another kit (take a sample to a LFS) or see if you can contact a local reefer to check your water...

you could mail me a small sample to check if you want-- PM if you are interested and I'll pm you back my address (I use and trust Salifert for both ALK and Calcium)-- yes I'm serious.

Spuds

Mooch18 · #16 11/01/2006, 07:11 PM

Hey Spuds. Appreciate the help. I'll just buy a salifert test kit, and see what happens from there.

Thanks again.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #17 11/02/2006, 07:03 AM

low, should i raise it??

Yes, I'd use just the calcium part of the two part, or calcium chloride. This calculator shows how much to use:

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html