Snails and algae....help!

[illinifish]

I did a 25% water change yesterday- I had been having some problems with a lot of brown colored algae on the tank (my three mexican chestnut turbo snails don't touch it). Anyway, I scrubbed the tank walls, changed the water and tried to suck up any debris at the bottom. I also had some green stringy stuff in the sand.

I only use the premixed water. I tested nitrates/nitrites, salinity and pH this morning and everything was fine. I need to get the other stuff checked but I didn't have time to run it to the LFS (I have ordered a more complete test kit of my own). I also added the Reef Amino acid and vitamin supplement as directed.

Tonight I get home, and there is red colored algae (diatoms?) all over the sand. ALready! The lights are only on for about 6 hours right now.

And, to make matters worse- none of my three snails have moved. At all. One was upside down stuck in some live rock and I am pretty sure he was alive last night, but not entirely. I moved the other two in the course of arranging things, but they're all in the same spots. How do I know if they are dead?

What am I doing wrong? The tank has been up and running for about four months now- I haven't added anythign new in a month. The only fish is a clownfish, and I have some zoas, rics and mushrooms. I was thinking about getting a goby and some hermits this weekend, but now I'm not sure. To make matters worse I'm leaving for two weeks on Monday and leaving the tank in a friend's hands....

Please help! And sorry for the long post!

[zt444a]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, and I am far from an expert here, but first off I'd say lack of flow in the tank might be causing your issues.

You say your parameters are fine, but what were they specifically, including temp?

How often do you feed your fish? Do you skim?

I am not familiar with the pre-mixed water at all, but if it is ok and all of the other factors are normal, then I'd say you need more flow in the tank possibly.

Also your tank is still very new, and 4 months is not alot of time so much of this could just be new tank syndrome.

Howie

[superfirefly]

To tell if your snails are dead just give them the old smell test but be prepared. If they are dead it will be a very nasty smell.

[ebess]

Cyanobacteria??? I had it in my tank. I'm still new and learning, but it sounds similar to what I had.

[capncapo]

You might want to do a little research on dinoflagellates. That could be the brown algae you're talking about. Tough to deal with but it can be done.

Does the red algae go away when the lights are off and get worse the longer that your lights are on?

What substrate are you using?

[Reggae Fish]

Bummer you're leaving town but it's not going to go away overnight.

I've dealt with and still dealing with some issues but I can repeat what others have helped me with.

#1- Phosban Reactor would be a big help as it sounds like you have cyano plus a good investment in general

#2- What is your photoperiod. Might want to cut it down.

#3- I think Capo is right on this... If it's Dinoflagellates don't scrape your glass, kick your lighting times down and raise your ph up to 8.5-8.6, skim wetter

#4- When you say premixed are you referring the the IO or brands like that or from a LFS

#5- I agree with howie, what are your parameters

#6- I also think you are probably lacking flow

#7- You're still in that timeframe that you're going to have algae blooms so I'd suggest getting some carbon and phosban going.

[illinifish]

Thanks so much for everyone's responses. I will research some of those topics. Here are some answers to the questions:

Salinity 1.025
Temp 80
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0.25
Alkalinity 300
pH 8.4

I have an Eclipse Illumination Filtration hood on the tank with 32 watts and the flow is 150 GPH. I have been messing with it a lot lately trying to aim it in a location that doesn't move too much sand around or batter one of the corals. I was actually thinking it was too much flow!

I think it gets worse when the lights are on. Lights are on about 6 hours.

Substrate is the Caribbean live sand.

Premixed water is the PetCo brand. I do top off's with distilled water from WalMart.

I don't skim.

I feed the fish 1-2 times per day (alternate Spectrum pellets, cyclopeeze, frozen mysis shrimp)

[illinifish]

Ok so after the research I think it's definitely the cyanobacteria, but possibly the dinoflagellates as well....although the stringy stuff I have is greenish not brown. Also I've noticed that there is possibly some hair algae on the live rock (I assume it's hair algae- stands straight up, about 1/8" tall).

The Eclipse hood has a space for a filter pad and a biowheel but I have not had either in it. I actually just bought the biowheel hoping that it would help control the flow but it's the wrong size. I was going to take it back and get the right one today- should I still do that?

I'm not sure how I can add carbon or phosban with my setup...and i have no idea what a phosban reactor is although I'm going to look it up now.

Also, I don't have a skimmer- I was told that I didn't need one. I'm not sure one will work with my hood....

I am definitely willing to do whatever to take care of this and I want my fish to survive, but I'm planning on getting a new tank next year (I wanted a 24g nano) when I move, so if you have recommendations on what equipment I need to get I would like to buy something that will work on the next tank as well.

Do I need to also get some clean up creatures? I think the snails are definitely toast :-(

Thanks again everyone- I really appreciate it.

[breutus]

Okay for starters I have always heard to never use distilled water in any fish tanks it causes problems with the PH and the alkalinity due to the fact that it is "pure water" and DKH and GKH would have to be added before it was safe to use... But this as I've heard is more so you don't stress things out not because it causes algae. So I don't know if it could have anything to do with your algae problem

[Reggae Fish]

Originally posted by breutus
Okay for starters I have always heard to never use distilled water in any fish tanks it causes problems with the PH and the alkalinity due to the fact that it is "pure water" and DKH and GKH would have to be added before it was safe to use... But this as I've heard is more so you don't stress things out not because it causes algae. So I don't know if it could have anything to do with your algae problem

Not to mention if you test the water that you get from those places, a lot of times, they don't change their filters and is not as pure as it should be.

[breutus]

Second, you should be showing no nitrites, what are your ammonia levels at? It could be possible that the tank is still in a cycle? which could explain why the snails are dying... but then again so could the distilled water...

[breutus]

Last but not least, though there is is no nitrates showing I would certainly recommend a skimmer on a tank that houses fish along with coral.

Your bioload is obviously low right now with only one fish but it would still keep water quality up from feedings and the waste that one fish produces.

[Reggae Fish]

Cut down on feeding

Your nitrites should be a 0

You nitrates are most likely being consumed by algae, etc...even though you have very little bioload, there is nitrates there

You need a phosphate test kit

What brand of kits are you using?

Some go skimmerless but I couldn't even imagine what my tank would look like if I didn't have one. The person you spoke with may have been talking about not nesc. needing one while cycling.

I think most people are looking for 20x-30x volume vs. flow.
I'm around 55x

Do you still have ammonia??? If you have nitrites there is a possibility that I wouldn't completely rule out.

I may have missed it but what size tank?

If you're worried about too much direct flow on certain corals, they make numerous things as deflectors.

For the time being without buying a phosban reactor. I have 2- one for carbon and one for phosban...You can simply use the media bags.

Do you have a sump?

[Reggae Fish]

oops

[breutus]

Originally posted by Reggae Fish


Some go skimmerless but I couldn't even imagine what my tank would look like if I didn't have one.

Yes you Can ... sorry you seemed like you left it open for discussion

[Reggae Fish]

Do you have anyone close that could house the clown, rics, zoas while you're gone??? If so, I would opt for that as the best solution since you're going to be out of town for 2 weeks. Top off the water, keep the lights off and let it keep cycling. That way you won't kill what you do have and you won't be trying to fix what looks to be quite a few issues while you're away for 2 weeks. When you get back you can do a nice water change and take it slow from there. That's just my opinion though

[illinifish]

Ok-

1. Will stop using the distilled water- it's funny because someone at the LFS up here told me the distilled was a good substitute for RO/DI.

2. The test kit I'm using is a crappy test strip one. I asked for the saltwater reef master test kit (liquid) for christmas...maybe I can get it early. I'm not sure where it's hidden right now....

3. I do have a little ammonia, but I am thinking it might be because I've had dead snails in there for like a day.... just took them out. I'm going to do another WC now.

4. It's a ten gallon tank, so I guess I have 15x volume flow. I'm not sure how I can improve it with this setup.

5. I will look into a skimmer.

6. No sump.

7. Media bags- can anyone make a specific recommendation on what ones to get? I'll have to get them from Petsmart probably. I guess I can just lay them in the groove where the filter pad is supposed to go? So one carbon and one phosban?

Thanks again!

[breutus]

Any ammonia is bad for sure so You are on the right track with a water change. Other than that it is kinda just time! You have to wait till the tank fully cycles and the ammonia levels and nitrite levels are showing 0. If the fish survives he will help push along the cycle a little faster but it could be a big IF he survives

[breutus]

Originally posted by illinifish


4. It's a ten gallon tank, so I guess I have 15x volume flow. I'm not sure how I can improve it with this setup.

Any power head would do the trick but it is also dependent Of what you want to keep. My 7.5 gallon only has about 20x flow and I have never had any type of algae problem.

[twizzlerman77]

i have an eclipse 10 gallon with basically the sae set up and was having basically the same problem until i removed my bio wheel, and added a small power head.. once i got rid of the cyno it has stayed gone im not sure if that is your problem as im fairly new to this hobby too, but it helped me. i also have heard that the biowheel can cause you to have nitrate spikes and also have heard it refered to as a "nitrate factory" and was told to remove it by many people for many different reasons....

[breutus]

your right on twizzler! it has a large surface area, and comes in contact with air and water. which in turns creates large colonies of bacteria that turn nitrite to nitrates. the problem comes in that nitrates build up faster than they can be change to nitrogen and released. and nitrates arenearly as deadly as nitrites!

[nano7joy]

<~~~skimmerless, distilled water using, old nano tank owning and maintaining redneck.

You feed alot. Probably to much, need to mix your own water to control quality, and definitely need more flow. Those are all my semi educated guesses.

[Reggae Fish]

That small of a tank I would really try to find someone to hold the few things that are in there. It is still cycling if there is ammonia and nitrites present.

BTW- Lucas. I gave (Steve) letmegrow your number last night. Hope that's cool. Also wrote it on a bunch of bathroom stalls. Hope that's cool

[illinifish]

Ok here's my plan:

1. I retested and this time I had no nitrites and trace ammonia. I'm going to do a 10% WC when I get home. I think my test kit is crappy. I don't know how it could be cycling again because I let it cycle for 2 months before I put anything in it. oh well.

2. I returned the biowheel and got the marineland rite-size carbon filter for my hood. I couldn't find any thing for the phosphate though.

3. I'm going to get a powerhead this weekend.

4. I'm going to cut back on feeding (I think this is a big problem as I have a hard time feeded a small enough amount of frozen mysis).

5. Also cutting down the light to 5 hours/day.

Any other suggestions? Thanks again!

[breutus]

He should have had it! but of course it's okay, steve is always welcome to call! have any idea what he needed?

As for the stalls, I've been told it was already in all the womens stalls... for the time of your life call...