Tank wiped out...humbled by the hobby

[cwschoon]

60 gal
Black Volitan - 6mths (would have had sepetate tank soon)
Dogface puffer - 3 yrs
Domino Damsel - 9yrs
3 Stripe Damsel - 9yrs
Powder Brown Tang - 1 yr
Cinnamon Clown - 6 yrs

No coral, just lots of live rock. Rock was old and very nasty. Took it out to bleach it and put in lots of dried -once live-rock that had been sitting in sealed plastic bin for years on Monday and all are dead as of this evening! Big Eheim cannister, HOT Magnum-not cleaned- AmmoLoc added and still wipe out.
My Damsels survived 3 moves in Toronto, Toronto to Atlanta, Atlanta to Leesburg, VA...
Dogface was a true pet and I feel terrible for the fish but what can you do?
Any ideas on how I killed my fish? Can't believe it was ammonia/nitrite because of mature filters and water. Must have been something in the dried rock? Should I have soaked it in a heavy Prime solution? Bleach was never used.
No matter how much you "think" you know........

[Sheol]

Obvious contamination. By something in the dead rock. Beyond that, I couldn't say. I suppose you could get the water tested & find out exactly what.
If I were you I'd jest break everything down, have a brief pity party, then I'd get up & clean, clen, & clean again everything from your system. STERILIZE everything. Then I'd start over. PITA yes, but I hope you don't mean to quit..

Matthew

[Jefe12234]

Wow, sorry to hear about your loss. My guess is that you removed a large portion of your bio-filter with your old rock. Then adding the dried rock (which probably had lots of nutrients left in it if it wasn't bleached) overwhelmed whatever bacteria remained in your filters. Did you test for ammonia yet? Probably not much to do now but wait for the rock to cycle. Running some carbon may help remove anything that may have been left in the rock.

[cwschoon]

Been in the hobby all my life. Probably will let it run for a few weeks, get some live rock in and see how some mollies do. The rock was pearly white and clean. Been sitting in a sealed plastic tub for years.

[cwschoon]

Six fish with a big Ehiem and a magnum with fresh carbon, aged water AND AmmoLoc. Can't see ammonia/nitrite.

[McTeague]

I think the dried live rock had massive amounts of organic material which rotted when submerged. Removing your established rock taking a huge part of your filtration system away made the situation that much worse. My guess is massive ammonia spike killed them all.

[cwschoon]

Logically, it was the rock BUT...I scrubbed it clean and dried it in the sun 5 years ago and again...a mature Eheim and Magnum filters and AmmoLoc should have taken care of a spike until the bacteria caught up. I used to sell API for a wholesaler and I know that it "locks" ammonia....60 gals and only six fish!

[JediReefer]

Rock is the devil!

[reefergeorge]

It happens to everyone that has been in the hobby for a while. Learn from it, and start over.

Did you wash or rinse the rock in rodi before adding it?

[Salamander]

Like everyone else said. Its simply obvious that by removing the rock you took a away a massive part of your bio filtration and then the rock you added had organic material that resulted in large ammonia spike. Your filters wouldn't be able to deal with that and even if you cleaned and dried the rock years ago, it likely had a ton of organic material left in it.

[m1enbo1]

i think its the dry rocks. i had to cycle my marco rocks, and they come bone dry. after putting it in a seperate tank, the ammonia was off the charts in just a day. so my guess is the dry rocks you put in there. theres probably alot of dead stuff inside, not outside.

[AquaReeferMan]

Your live rock = 80% of your biological filtration.
Your 2 filters = 20% of your biological filtration.

Simple math. Im sorry about your loss though. Its hard losing everything so fast like that. I hope you jump right back in it though. Dont worry there is sunshine over the next hill.

[Salamander]

Yeah, Sorry to hear about the loss. It sucks. There are plenty of learning lessons in this hobby (no matter how long you've been in it) and many of them hard lessons to learn. Only bad things happen fast....but keep with it.

[NanoGurl]

wow really sorry =(

[aussiefishie]

Sorry for your loss, i guess it is a timely reminder that we all should be careful about what goes into our tanks....only takes one "should be right" moment.......

[cwschoon]

Just got cocky, I guess. With only 6 fish or so in a 60 gal and mature filters and water...felt AmmoLoc would neutralize any spike 'till bio filter caught up. Should I have soaked rock in heavy prime/or similar solution?
I have moved and set up so many tanks before. This is why it seems so strange but never put in so much dry rock before either.

[airinhere]

Not to be the downer in this thread, but have you considered aggression as the cause for your fish dying? You have a Who's Who list of some of the most aggresive fish available. Only thing missing was a clown trigger. Even if the fish were all living together peacfully, once you removed the existing rockwork and replaced it with new rock, they had to re-establish their individual territories. Four large (9 year old) damsels and a big tomatoe clown should have shredded each other. Add a puffer a tang and a lionfish and you have a recipe for trouble.

Plus, your tank was only 60 gal??????? Seriously??????
You are lucky beyond belief to have had such good luck until now. That many fish is a huge bioload for a small tank like that. Half of those fish are not even generally recommended for such a small tank.

Not trying to be the fish police, just pointing out what I hope we all should know already.

I think the heavy bioload already in that tank was over the limit of what it could stand (thus you had to remove the rockwork in the first place). Removing the rock left your tank with a woefully inadequate amount of biological filtration. Adding the new rock would have been fine if the rock was already cured and cycled past the diatom and green algae stages. But it had nothing to offer since it was just dry rock. The huge amounts of ammonia being created by your fish overwhelmed your filtration methods and the additives you were using (I understand most ammonia reducers do little more thatn mask ammonia). Everything must have died the very first day.

Sad part is, even if you had cycled the rock, the territoriality of the fish could have been their undoing as well. All it would take is one death in the tank of any of your mature fish and the resulting ammonia spike would have overwhelmed the (already) overwhelmed biological filtration in your tank.

Even worse, the aggresive nature of the fish would have meant someone would likely end up dead from being bitten to death. Rearranging rockwork is a tool sometimes used to quell territorialty, but it can also induce territorial behavior as well.

As a suggestion, I would encourage you to look at a good quality protien skimmer and a larger tank/ lighter bioload. The arguments about cannister filters are legit in my book. They have their uses, but also have their risks. Regardless of if you choose to use them, a good, (oversized) skimmer would have aerated the tank and provided a much needed method of nutrient removal in your nutrient rich tank enviroment. Your nitrates, they had to be in the hundred plus category. Survivable for fish, but still indicative of an underlying problem.

Your profile lists you as having grown up around the saltwater hobby your whole life, so please dont think I am putting you down, but you had to know that your tank was modeled after older methods of reefkeeping and was heavily stocked with very aggressive fish.

The last couple of years have really changed the whole marine hobby. Perhaps your next tank (and please do try again) could be modeled on a more recent style and with improved methods for filtration and stocking.

And having fish live for 9 years in my tanks is something I have yet to acheive so dont think I am not impressed by your achievment.

[boxfishpooalot]

Oxygen depletion.

[cwschoon]

Not shirking responsibility...I killed my fish but as far as compatibility...no problems at all. The Damsels grew up together, the clown was fine, the Dogface was a pussycat and the Lion was small and was to soon get his own tank. Everybody has their own opinions but I don't feel that 2 Damsels, a Dogface, a Clown and a tang is either too much bioload for a 60 or that the tank is too small...don't want to start a Tang/tank size controversy here. Yes, the tank was stocked w. aggressive fish but that was the entire point of the tank! I had a skimmer running also.
Bioload had nothing to do with the rock. It was 10 years old and not very pretty but like I said, am not shirking responsibility.
I also know reefkeeping is always changing. My reef tank has fish, corals, metal halides, a sump, nice skimmer, etc, etc. but there is nothing wrong with a tank filtered by a big Eheim, a Magnum and a "good" hang on skimmer either.

[JediReefer]

It seems like you came looking for a certain answer you may have already had in your head to give it some credit...but have not received it.

What do you think the problem was then?

[fantastic4]

Contamination by live rock. Work tank had a 180g that recieves cleaning by professionals once a week. They took out fake plants and soaked in bleach, they forgot to rinse plants in water and placed wet plants in tank. 1 to 2 hours later all fish dead. Fish can survive amaizingly long in water with very little filtration, so it must be LR.

[corals b 4 bills]

I too am sorry for your loss, but this is the time to move forward and concentrate on the new tank build not reflecting on the possible cause of the crash because I don't think you will even really know for sure what caused it. Most likely it was a once in a life time mishap that you would never be able to duplicate (as long as you don't use that dry rock again), so give yourself some credit for giving those little guys a great home for so many years and drink them a beer. If you need to talk more about it were here for you.

[Sheol]

I forgot to add my condolences. Sorry for the loss man. That really sucked..

Matthew

[airinhere]

Again, I wasnt trying to be the fish police, (I am a previous violator of stocking suggestions also). And if your fish had survived for almost a decade together, I dont wnat anyone to think I am telling them their stocking selection wouldnt work (because obviously it did). But many new reefkeepers ask questioons about stocking their tanks and are frequently advised to keep only one tang (and in a tank 4 foot long or better). To avoid keeping damsels because usually they kill each other off. To be careful with puffers because they have a tendency to try and eat everyone in the tank. Lionfish are sometimes intentionally fed damsels and the Tomatoe Clown is among the most agressive clown species to keep.

But this is probably stuff you already knew.

I agree with coral B 4 Bills. Look toward your next tank setup. Maybe focusing on more unusual species and trying for more compatable species for your next tank. You already have the experience to try more exotic fish.

And i also want to extend my condolences. Tank crashes are no fun and more than a little disheartening. You have enjoyed great sucess in the past, so dont give up now.

[cwschoon]

Thanks for all the advice. I think it was a combination of things. To my knowledge, the dry rock was clean and had no debris...it was in a plastic container for years but it may have had something in it. I still have a hard time believing that ammonia killed them because only 6 fish, mature filters but I had lots of live rock and know that was the primary filter...To state the obvious, it must have been something!
The next time I use dead rock...and my plan is to bleach what I took out and put it in my reef...this is what I am going to do and any suggestions are appreciated...
Dry rock first and scrub
Bleach rock
Dry rock and soak/rinse a ton.
Soak rock in heavy prime solution.
Put in tub with some other live rock w power head and test for amm/nitrite.