Melev's new 280g Starfire tank thread

[melev]

Originally posted by Northside Reef
ah I see Marc, very good news indeed. Have you considered once a week water changes until you get the PO4 where you want it?

PS any idea on those snails lol I really think they are turbos they look just like them only smaller.

Still can't believe that entire bucket of weeds made that trip around Dallas and lived . You should have got a picture of that

I guess I could post a picture of the happy weeds in my fuge now.

I've not seen your nafarious snails yet. But I am watching for them.

I have the salt to do more water changes. Now I need the energy, or some good barrel dollies.

[melev]

The new MASNA Newsletter is online, and a photo contest is open to all. You should consider participating, as your image may likely be used in the MASNA Calendar project coming up soon.

http://www.masna.org/ms/spring05/newsletter.html

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[Jamesurq]

Marc you know you're just itching to nominate me for the biggest contribution to the hobby...

I didn't see the photo contest on that page - am I missing something?

[melev]

Look for this image on the newsletter:



It is explained right under it.

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally posted by melev
A believe of what specifically? Clear water? What other benefits did you derive from using it?

One thing that comes to mind is that with increased clarity, lighting will penetrate better (increased PAR) and some corals may bleach in shock.

Increased water clarity is one huge benefit. Yes, you should be careful not to bleach your corals, I had no problem what-so-ever, but if you have green water then you might. Solution, take it slow, maybe raise your lights for a little while, only run ozone for 10 mins a day and then increase to 30, then 1 hr then 2 and so on.

When I used ozone on my old tank with sand I noticed that all cyano immediately disappeared, and just less nuisance algae altogether.

I really firmly believe that you do not need an ORP controller, just be somewhat cautious. Bob Fenner highly recommends it in the CMA. You do not need to run carbon with it, at least not on the small hobbiest units.

I have an ORP controller but would not buy one again, nice to know, but not necessary. I have a RedSea 200 mg/hr unit with their big air dryer. (even an air drier is not needed, it just makes it more efficient) I use about 25% of my unit (50 mg/hr). I have used up to 100% on many occassions but it didn't seem to have any real added benefit.

I am setting up a new tank for a Newbie, and I am planning to get a simple ozone unit because I believe that it will make life easier for her.

I will never have another tank w/o ozone again!

BTW I spent months researching it, so if you have any more questions fire away.

[Jamesurq]

jeez - Im blind.

Thanks.

[Northside Reef]

Originally posted by melev


I've not seen your nafarious snails yet. But I am watching for them.

hmmm well tha's strange, maybe I just need to get off my lazy butt and mail a few to Dr. Ron and see what he has to say.

heading out to get that spanner wrench I was telling you about I hope this fixes my problem.

PS I have to go to Houston next week, I wish it were Fort Worth I would love to see your setup in person.

[melev]

Originally posted by littlesilvermax
Increased water clarity is one huge benefit. Yes, you should be careful not to bleach your corals, I had no problem what-so-ever, but if you have green water then you might. Solution, take it slow, maybe raise your lights for a little while, only run ozone for 10 mins a day and then increase to 30, then 1 hr then 2 and so on.

When I used ozone on my old tank with sand I noticed that all cyano immediately disappeared, and just less nuisance algae altogether.

I really firmly believe that you do not need an ORP controller, just be somewhat cautious. Bob Fenner highly recommends it in the CMA. You do not need to run carbon with it, at least not on the small hobbiest units.

I have an ORP controller but would not buy one again, nice to know, but not necessary. I have a RedSea 200 mg/hr unit with their big air dryer. (even an air drier is not needed, it just makes it more efficient) I use about 25% of my unit (50 mg/hr). I have used up to 100% on many occassions but it didn't seem to have any real added benefit.

I am setting up a new tank for a Newbie, and I am planning to get a simple ozone unit because I believe that it will make life easier for her.

I will never have another tank w/o ozone again!

BTW I spent months researching it, so if you have any more questions fire away.

Very interesting comments (or maybe that is just the beer talking... heheh). First of all, it is nice to hear if a controller is actually needed or not, instead of just stating you must have it. (In the case of my Calcium Reactor, the pH controller made it set-it-and-forget-it, thus a great choice.)

I don't understand how it works apparently. You state yours is 200 mg/hour, but you only use 50 mg/hr. Is this some thing you drip then? I'm aware that ozone is quite toxic, and the effluent (my word, maybe incorrectly) should be dripped through carbon, yet you state carbon is unncessary. Lastly, you used it at 100% but saw no added benefit, so that is why you only use it at 25%? I've seen a few of these units locally, but never looked that closely. I saw a device that must have been some kind of controller with lights perhaps.

Do you have a website where I could refer to your "ozone page" perhaps?

[melev]

Originally posted by Jamesurq
jeez - Im blind.

Thanks.

No, that isn't necessarily true James. With the newsletter being in color with full color ads, it gets a little tricky making things stand out. Cheri, president of MASNA, asked me to make some type of image so it would be more visible. I'm actually pretty proud of how that image came out, with the bubbly fonts.

Btw, I finally dumped out my bucket of LS that I removed from the old refugium. It has sat in the sun, been rained upon and needed to go somewhere. I took it around to the side of the house, and figuring since it is only sand I could pour that out near the foundation. UGH! It wreaked, and there were horrendous black zones or patches, and the inside of the bucket has corresponding black patches inside that didn't wash-and-wipe out. I'm glad the sand didn't come out of the refugium like that, but I had no idea it could foul or rot so badly in about a week's time. Texas heat - wow.

[melev]

Originally posted by Northside Reef
hmmm well tha's strange, maybe I just need to get off my lazy butt and mail a few to Dr. Ron and see what he has to say.

heading out to get that spanner wrench I was telling you about I hope this fixes my problem.

PS I have to go to Houston next week, I wish it were Fort Worth I would love to see your setup in person.

As you said, they will appear. I'll try to keep watch for them. If you can post a few pictures in Ron's forum, that would help. Put a penny or a dime nearby for a size reference.

I hope that works with your new spanner. Don't break anything!

Hey, I'm only 4 hours north of Houston, as Cheri recently made the drive. If you want to come up to hang out a bit, you are welcome to do so. We could grab dinner, perhaps. I'd love to talk more with you about your new setup. If you can't come, that's okay too. More beer for me.

[LittleBlueGT]

I am really amazed that you (the reef god) knows so little about ozone. I guess in at least one area I know a little more then you.

Ozone is O3, or three oxygen atoms combined to form a molecule. Usually oxygen is present in two atoms O2. This third ogygen atom makes the molecule very unstable. It wants to leave the molecule and combine with something else. Sometimes this is referred to being highly reactive.

Ozone can be harmful. It can hurt the lungs, can hurt fish gills, etc... That is why people use special ozone reistant tubing. Normal tubing cracks. Most skimmers can handle ozone with ease, I am sure your new one is capable.

More to follow.

[melev]

Today was a big one, and it was worth every minute.

Our club (DFWMAS) had a frag swap today. We've had one a year, always in November, but our members requested that we have two swaps a year. So for the past month or so, we've been telling everyone to attend, and to bring their frags.

Unfortunately, I arrived very late due to me having TOO MUCH to do before I could leave. When I got to the location, the parking lot was full, and inside there must have been 150 or 200 people busily trading and talking. How exciting! I asked someone to do a head count, and asking someone else to do a frag count, but I don't know if either got done. Thus, I'm allow to exaggerate the numbers I guess. There were LOTS of frags. Then we had our election for two BOD positions that needed to be filled. One member did a presentation about seahorses for about 25 minutes with a powerpoint presentation, and then we ended the meeting with our famous raffle. Lots of fish were in the raffle, including a Lionfish (Love those!), and three beautiful corals that made me drool. Because there were left-over frags that went unsold, members donated those to the raffle, as well as some drygoods that they didn't want to take back home. Lots of things were won over the next 30 minutes, including a 55g tank/stand/canopy, a 28g acrylic tank and stand, a single 175w MH pendant setup, a CPR bakpak skimmer, auto top off devices, a HOB Magnum filter, and more. Even some shirts embroidered with the club name were donated to the raffle. We have a really cool club!

I even ended up winning a gift certificate, much to my surprise.

After that, a few of us met at AppleBees for a bite to eat, and I got a call from a LFS owner asking for my help. He needed some assistance with photography, so I headed over as it was on the way home. When I got there, I had no idea what I was about to see, and it was really impressive. I'm going back tomorrow and plan to take a few pictures that I'll share in this thread. He is or is going to be an RC Sponsor mail-order company for corals.

He has giant troughs set up, each holding 2500g of saltwater. Two troughs (5000g) are dumping into a huge sump, and are being skimmed by a Bermuda skimmer rated for 9000g. 1000 lbs of LR are part of the filtration. I think I saw huge pumps providing circulation at one end, and I believe a few were installed beneath the troughs as part of the closed loop circulation. Hanging over each trough were seven MH fixtures, each containing a 1000w bulb!

So for those of you keeping count, the setup has 10,000g currently with another huge tank still to be set up. I counted 24 1000w MH lights hanging from the ceiling, and two of the giant skimmers. These are the ones that must stand 9' tall, with sprinkler heads inside the collection cup just to wash it out automatically.

What about the corals? I saw racks covered with corals, just like you'd expect. All kinds of corals, and lots of nice SPS. Actually, "nice" is an understatement. With all the flow, (I know that one pipe he pointed to had 10,000gph going through it) the SPS looked colorful. Then when I lowered my topdown box through the water to start to take a few pictures, I was stunned by the colors I saw. I pulled the box back out and looked again through the moving water, because I couldn't believe the difference. I think the first coral I saw was a larger green Acropora (not a slimer (A. yongei)), but looking through the box I saw blue polyps I think. Like I said, I was so amazed I just started looking at more and more corals to see what I could discover. It was really neat.

I'll have to see if I have any pictures I can show you, after I download them to my harddrive. They have a lot of work ahead of them, as they need to measure, take pictures and get them on their website, and I heard the deadline is the 15th. So I guess you guys need to pay more attention to the rotating banners here on RC to see when it comes online. And let me save you the time of asking: I don't know the name of the business. Sorry. It'll be something like "Exotic Amazing You-Gotta-See-This-Coral.com" or something.

I need to go check on my frags that I got today, and see about mounting them now.

[melev]

That's great, Max. Keep it coming. Ozone is one of those topics I've just skimmed over, as in all honesty I've not had any reason to be interested in it. I try to always be open-minded to other ideas, and if your thoughts are convincing enough, I may give it a try.

Not to get your hopes up or anything.

[LittleBlueGT]

Ozone is the sweet smell you sometimes get after an electrical storm. If you are using too much ozone you will be able to smell it in your fish room, not really a good thing.

The units that hobbiests buy (ie. Red Sea) are very small units. They will not hurt you unless you suck on the tubing, or do something else very stupid. They use electricity to produce a small amount of ozone.

Most people dose ozone by injecting it into their skimmer. For your needlewheel skimmer I am sure others can chime in as to how they inject into theirs. In a skimmer (especially a large one) their is more then enough water/air interface to allow the ozone to oxidize (react with) any organics in the water. This reaction breaks down the organics and allows them to be removed much easier.

The results, crystal clear water that is cleaner and much better for corals to flourish in.

Many people say you need carbon (YOU DO NOT) and many say you need an ORP meter (YOU DO NOT).

Carbon will use up any residual ozone left in the water, true. Ozone left in your water will hurt your fish, true. Bob Fenner essentially gaurantees that you do not need carbon with small hobbiest units that are correctly sized. For your tank (like my 250) a 200 mg/hr unit that is run at 25-50% would work perfect. It helps the unit last longer by not running it at 100%. There are many people here at RC that use carbon, but there many that do not. I have run my unit at 100%, smelled ozone in my fish room, and done this for days with no bad effects on my system what-so-ever. Many wholesalers use ozone w/o carbon. It saves money on carbon and maintenance chores. I still think carbon is good to have on hand though in case of an emergency, or as a precautionary measure. I use it once every couple of months if something wierd happens.

An ORP monitor does not monitor residual ozone, it monitors redo value. I am not even going to get into that, but the two are related. If you want to run ozone at high levels then an ORP monitor can be good. It has nice to know info, can be helpful in identifying a problem, can help to see overal trends in a system. An ORP controller will turn off the ozone when the ORP level gets to a preset point.

While a monitor or controller is nice to have a recommend that it is not needed. Many reefers that are on a limited budget would benefit greatly by ozone but don't do it becasue of all the costs. A controller is worth more then an ozone unit. (usually)

Of course companies that sell stuff like us to think we need these things.

If you where to buy a small unit, use it sparingly, and acclimate your corals slowly. I gaurantee you will thank me in the near future and never turn back.

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally posted by melev
I don't understand how it works apparently. You state yours is 200 mg/hour, but you only use 50 mg/hr. Is this some thing you drip then? I'm aware that ozone is quite toxic, and the effluent (my word, maybe incorrectly) should be dripped through carbon, yet you state carbon is unncessary. Lastly, you used it at 100% but saw no added benefit, so that is why you only use it at 25%? I've seen a few of these units locally, but never looked that closely. I saw a device that must have been some kind of controller with lights perhaps.

Do you have a website where I could refer to your "ozone page" perhaps?

It is a gas, not something you drip. Usually the suction from a skimmer can pull the air through the unit, but sometimes an air pump is needed.

Very little is needed to get your water nice and clear. I would guess a 10 mg/hr would get your water clear in a couple of days. I use less then 100% so my unit will last longer.

I think I answered the rest of your questions.


BTW thanks for the write-up. I would love to go to a frag swap like that. I can barely imagine something that great.

[melev]

Great stuff. Thanks for the explanation. I'll ponder on it some more, and probably ask you more questions later.

Btw, I forgot to mention that I came home with some huge pads (similar to Polyfilter) that the LFS owner is convinced will resolve my PO4 problems. I put two filters in the baffles of my sump an hour ago.

Here are 14 pictures of the corals I saw tonight that I photographed. There were tons more, but I didn't even try to photograph those. I believe I only captured about 50 on 'film' for them tonight. I doubt posting these is against any rules, since #1) the vendor isn't even open for business yet, and #2) I took the pictures just like I might at any LFS so others can see what I saw that day.

At first, I struggled with my white balance settings to try to get a real picture of the corals, but finally realized setting it to AUTO was perfectly fine. The 1000w MH bulbs were 6700K with an output rating of ~10,000K. There wasn't a 20,000K bulb in sight. These colors are pretty darn accurate.

My first picture looks pretty bad, as the flow was strong. I had him turn off the pumps for the other shots. Check out the colors!









This one is amazing.






Yes, this was that blue. Look at the golden brown coral to the left, with blue tips and green corralites.

[melev]

And here are the others. I'm impressed. I can't afford 'em, but I sure liked looking at them.

[LittleBlueGT]

I want, I want!

[Ehydo]

Those are great.

And wow some else is up...

[TippyToeX]

Awesome Marc! WB looks spot on.

[steve68]

they are sweet!
u should get at least one for doing free advertised.
this looks like it would be great for goup buy's!

[melev]

It isn't advertising, unless you want to advertise the Big Guy that invented these corals in the first place.

[jnb]

I thin he has a 200mg unit which has a control to dial it down http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...uct=RS3655like this one

Originally posted by melev
Very interesting comments (or maybe that is just the beer talking... heheh). First of all, it is nice to hear if a controller is actually needed or not, instead of just stating you must have it. (In the case of my Calcium Reactor, the pH controller made it set-it-and-forget-it, thus a great choice.)

I don't understand how it works apparently. You state yours is 200 mg/hour, but you only use 50 mg/hr. Is this some thing you drip then? I'm aware that ozone is quite toxic, and the effluent (my word, maybe incorrectly) should be dripped through carbon, yet you state carbon is unnecessary. Lastly, you used it at 100% but saw no added benefit, so that is why you only use it at 25%? I've seen a few of these units locally, but never looked that closely. I saw a device that must have been some kind of controller with lights perhaps.

Do you have a website where I could refer to your "ozone page" perhaps?

[jnb]

what is the brand name of the pads you are trying

Originally posted by melev
Great stuff. Thanks for the explanation. I'll ponder on it some more, and probably ask you more questions later.

Btw, I forgot to mention that I came home with some huge pads (similar to Polyfilter) that the LFS owner is convinced will resolve my PO4 problems. I put two filters in the baffles of my sump an hour ago.

Here are 14 pictures of the corals I saw tonight that I photographed. There were tons more, but I didn't even try to photograph those. I believe I only captured about 50 on 'film' for them tonight. I doubt posting these is against any rules, since #1) the vendor isn't even open for business yet, and #2) I took the pictures just like I might at any LFS so others can see what I saw that day.

At first, I struggled with my white balance settings to try to get a real picture of the corals, but finally realized setting it to AUTO was perfectly fine. The 1000w MH bulbs were 6700K with an output rating of ~10,000K. There wasn't a 20,000K bulb in sight. These colors are pretty darn accurate.

My first picture looks pretty bad, as the flow was strong. I had him turn off the pumps for the other shots. Check out the colors!

Yes, this was that blue. Look at the golden brown coral to the left, with blue tips and green corralites.

[steve68]

I hear u but this has ur name all over it