Mysterious fish deaths are more common now (Flukes) - Page 2

tmz · #26 11/29/2007, 10:05 AM

Thanks Jay, Very good information.

LargeAngels · #27 11/29/2007, 10:45 AM

Great thread cthetoy.

A couple of things I have experienced with these flukes.

Copper does NOTHING to these guys

FW dips only remove the adults, but does not kill the eggs

Prazipro is excellent, as far as Reef Safe I don't put anything in my reef that is meant to kill anything.

I've used Fluke tabs, but it seems more toxic and not tolerated by all fish.

Many wholesalers or LFS don't know or treat for them.

I treat EVERY single fish with Prazipro. If an infected fish is placed in a community tank it may be too late for other fish by the time you figure it out.

I've used Prazipro in combination with Cupramine with no ill affects.

Don't assume the fish is healthy and doesn't have flukes just because it is eating or came from a reputable dealer.

Neptune777 · #28 11/29/2007, 01:15 PM

Will a Hyposalinity treatment work on the Flukes as well? Not the FW dip but a 6 week duration like used to kill ICH?

LargeAngels · #29 11/29/2007, 02:11 PM

I forgot to mention that one. Hypo does not appear to work either.

ezcompany · #30 11/29/2007, 02:15 PM

How toxic are we talking about on the fluke tabs? How would Wrasses tolerate it? how would half the dosage work?
I take it these flukes are similar looking to AEFWs?

LargeAngels · #31 11/29/2007, 02:22 PM

I lost a chrysurus juvenile and a red sea regal within one day of adding the fluke tabs on different occasions. Wrasses and clowns tolerated it, but after that and reading that fluke tabs will affect the biological filter bed I went with Prazipro from then on.

Atomikk · #32 12/02/2007, 12:36 AM

So can it be easily mistaken for velvet? Because I think my fish have velvet, but it has been like 2 weeks that my pink tail trigger has had it.

tmz · #33 12/02/2007, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atomikk
So can it be easily mistaken for velvet? Because I think my fish have velvet, but it has been like 2 weeks that my pink tail trigger has had it.

In my experience, Velvet(aka amyloodinium) will kill a fish quicker than 2 weeks without copper or hyposalinity treatment.

Atomikk · #34 12/02/2007, 03:27 AM

The thing is that it (fish, and tank) was medicated with copper for two weeks (w/o hypo)

grouperman · #35 12/02/2007, 12:46 PM

i just added prazi pro to my system and fish are twitching and acting irratated . hopefully it is just the flukes dying causing this . is this normal ?

cthetoy · #36 12/02/2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grouperman
i just added prazi pro to my system and fish are twitching and acting irratated . hopefully it is just the flukes dying causing this . is this normal ?

When I dosed Prazipro and it took 48 hours before I saw the dead flukes. Looked like a small snow storm in my Qtank. If you have a filter system running you might not see the flukes. Watch your water parameters and aeration. Also make sure you shake the bottle vigorously as stated or you will dose will be too weak or too strong. Keep us posted

CW from the OC · #37 12/02/2007, 08:31 PM

Hey Guys,

I just dosed some prazipro in my QT. I shook the crap out of it, but I still got some whitish blobs of very thick stuff coming out. At some points, the blob would actually prevent me from being able to get the prazipro out of the bottle.

Anyone else had this problem? Any idea what to do? Shake it for an hour?

willhoward · #38 12/04/2007, 03:15 AM

This is a very interesting thread! Might explain alot of mysterious fish deaths. I've got a few questions about flukes:
~ Can flukes be dormant? In other words, how do my fish get it if I havn't added anything new within the last 2 months and the fish that died have been healthy for almost a year in my tank?
~ How quickly does flukes progress? The fish was eating well the one day, no foggy eyes, next morning lay on sand, next day dead

~ Can fish carry flukes without being infected?
~ How do one get flukes out of your main system if you've got it? Will it die off without a host (the fish)
~ Is PraziPro invert safe?

Thanx alot!

cthetoy · #39 12/04/2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willhoward
I've got a few questions about flukes:
~ Can flukes be dormant? In other words, how do my fish get it if I havn't added anything new within the last 2 months and the fish that died have been healthy for almost a year in my tank?
~ How quickly does flukes progress? The fish was eating well the one day, no foggy eyes, next morning lay on sand, next day dead
~ Can fish carry flukes without being infected?
~ How do one get flukes out of your main system if you've got it? Will it die off without a host (the fish)
~ Is PraziPro invert safe?

~ Can flukes be dormant? In other words, how do my fish get it if I havn't added anything new within the last 2 months and the fish that died have been healthy for almost a year in my tank?

I had a new Angel for about 2 months and it got flukes. Im not sure if he got it from the other fish or if he had it when I bought it. That was the time I didnt know anything about flukes

~ How quickly does flukes progress? The fish was eating well the one day, no foggy eyes, next morning lay on sand, next day dead

I never had a fluke infested fish die the next day after it stopped eating. It took another 2 weeks before the fish will die. In my experience if you catch the fish early on with the symptoms and FW dip the fish your chances of curing it is greater. Usually the fish that stopped eating will eat the next day after the FW drip. If you wait too long like I did once because I did not have time to tear down my tank to catch the fish it died 2 weeks later despite the FW dip and yes it had flukes as well.

~ Can fish carry flukes without being infected?
Yes, just like Ich.

~ How do one get flukes out of your main system if you've got it? Will it die off without a host (the fish)
You can leave the main system fishless for about 4-6 weeks or treat it with Prazipro for 5 days

~ Is PraziPro invert safe?
Not safe with worms i.e. feather dusters. From other threads Xenia and Star Polyps does not like Prazipro. Not sure about invertebrates.

The above answers are just from my previous experiences and your results my vary.

If other would like to charm in please do so

LargeAngels · #40 12/05/2007, 09:02 AM

IME it seems that it does take a couple of weeks to kill the fish, and of course some are more or less susceptible than others. With new fish there is no way to tell when it got infected or how well it can fight off the flukes. So with new fish it is very important to catch this as early as possible.

Secondary infections and severe injury to the eyes also plays a major role.

Grevious · #41 12/05/2007, 09:47 AM

I have owned large Angels and Tangs for years now. Have never lost any to a mysterious bacteria, however I am curious about the "Freshwater Dip" process.

Do you actually take the fish and hand dip it in freshwater or actually put it in a tank of freshwater for a few minutes? Does this stress the fish out badly?

I have a 120 gallon tank I use as a quarintine but generally have only treated with coppersafe in the past.

After reading this thread I am concerned about my quarintine process as I have quite a bit invested in my current livestock and don't want to introduce Flukes in the future.

LargeAngels · #42 12/05/2007, 10:12 AM

Grevious: Personally I treat EVERY single fish I get now for flukes. I too have fish I don't want to loose.

Freshwater Dips

This freshwater dips are effective for a few parasites such as Amyloodinium and turbellarian flatworms. They are generally not effective for Marine "Ich".

The dip should be performed in a bowl or dish, just deep enough for the fish. Distilled, Reverse Osmosis or Reverse Osmosis/Deionised water should be used. It is a good idea to aerate the water for 30 minutes or so to ensure it has sufficient oxygen. Some processed water can be a little low on oxygen. The temperature of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the temperature of the tank water. The pH of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the pH of the tank water. Add a small amount of baking soda (around half a teaspoon) to the water and mix well. This will add some bicarbonate and carbonate to the water which will help with the pH.

Place the fish in the freshwater for around 3 minutes. Make sure the fish does not get too stressed and if it shows signs of extreme stress, remove it immediately. After 3 minutes put the fish back into the tank or into a quarantine tank if you have one.

For fish with Amyloodinium, the freshwater dips will only provide a temporary solution and treatment with Cupramine in a separate treatment tank is recommended. For fish with turbellaria (AKA "Black Ich"), the freshwater dip should be repeated twice at 3 day intervals.

Grevious · #43 12/05/2007, 10:21 AM

LargeAngels - Thanks for the info. I have used coppersafe in the past, is cupramine a better/stronger treatment?

LargeAngels · #44 12/05/2007, 10:29 AM

Cupramine is (IMO) much better than Coppersafe. Cupramine is a totally different copper treatment and is tolerated by even copper sensitive fish. Effective treatment dose range is 0.2-0.8, but recommended is 0.5. It is also not absorb as quickly by calcerous substances and is not harsh on the biological filter bed.

Only thing to be cautious about is Seachem's copper test kit as they had some batches that were unreliable, including the reference sample they have in the kit. I use the Red Sea Copper test kit, even though it only goes up to 0.4 ppm, without any issues.

Grevious · #45 12/05/2007, 10:32 AM

Thanks for all the info. I plan on adjusting my quaritine process in the future & hope to have continued success.

tmz · #46 12/05/2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grevious
Thanks for all the info. I plan on adjusting my quaritine process in the future & hope to have continued success.

I have always used SeaCure an uncheleated copper with sucess. My protocol was to place the fish it qt observe and treat as needed. I have just changed it. I now maintain a 29 g at 1.09 sg(hyposalinity). A 1-2 hour drip acclimation for new fish works with no signs of stress (Some say it's not even necessary to acclimate when moving down in sg.). I treat this tank with one dose of prazi-pro, prophylacticly.I will take a week or at least several days to bring the tank up to system salinity level before moving the fish out after 4 to 6 weeks.If the hypo fails I figure I can always add copper later.

eskymick · #47 12/05/2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tmz
I have always used SeaCure an uncheleated copper with sucess. My protocol was to place the fish it qt observe and treat as needed. I have just changed it. I now maintain a 29 g at 1.09 sg(hyposalinity). A 1-2 hour drip acclimation for new fish works with no signs of stress (Some say it's not even necessary to acclimate when moving down in sg.). I treat this tank with one dose of prazi-pro, prophylacticly.I will take a week or at least several days to bring the tank up to system salinity level before moving the fish out after 4 to 6 weeks.If the hypo fails I figure I can always add copper later.

I like your plan. For how many days will you leave the quarantined fish in hypo before beginning to raise the salinity back to a normal level?

tmz · #48 12/06/2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eskymick
I like your plan. For how many days will you leave the quarantined fish in hypo before beginning to raise the salinity back to a normal level?

Four weeks symtom free.

lowbudget · #49 12/06/2007, 03:13 AM

i remember i use to treat discus with prazi. i never used prazipro, but a powder form.

SDguy · #50 12/06/2007, 08:42 AM

Interesting that someone else noticed this. When I read the OP and the symtoms listed, I got a chill.....

Here's some more info from my ups and downs....actually, other than the fact that my fluke/worm infestation in my tank is only anthias specific, they have been all "downs" eventually

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...anthias+flukes

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic74727-10-1.aspx