Step-by-step account of my first reef (with lots of pics)

[Cprowler]

Originally posted by Dudester
Cprowler - Thanks for the link - interesting story and you handled your flood with much more grace than I. I'll be honest - I wasn't so concerned about the consequences of the leak (damage to paint, tiles, rug, etc.), but instead it was the aftermath I'd receive from my "project manager." This certainly didn't win me any points toward getting my monster system, but, as with all things, time heals the wounds . BTW, I've been lurking in some of your threads as well but haven't had anything to contribute .

I don't know about grace.

My project manager lost it, that time and the other two times I had minor spills. I said that's why I need a drilled RR tank. But she's happy she got new flooring in the whole house.

I hope everything works out for you.

[Dudester]

melev - I guess I'm fortunate to be able to see this "cocooning" behavior, because it happened again last night. I observed the tank as the lights went out. Immediately the wrasse swam into a hole and became immotile. This morning it was out and again picking at the rocks. Although now it has a small wound - I think my clownfish bit out a chunk of the tail, but this will grow back and the wrasse looks like it couldn't care less.

Regarding my fish mortality and its relationship to acclimation, I would assume (possibly incorrectly?) that if the fish were acclimated improperly, they'd die within the first 12-24 hours, not after 3 days? As far as my acclimation procedure, here's what I do, and feel free to critique.

I float the bag from the LFS in my tank for about 20 minutes to equalize the temperature. I then pour the fish and some bag water into a plastic container that I can hang over the lip of the tank and into the tank, so the temp remains stable. For this purpose I use one of those 2-sided plastic containers from HD that's used for paint. It's really convenient since I use the second compartment (hanging outside the tank) to hold my turkey baster. I then add one baster-full of tank water into the fishes compartment about every 5 minutes or so until the container is nearly full. At that point I pour out half of the water, then repeat the process again until full. The water is discarded through a net, and the fish is placed into the tank. The entire process takes about 1 and 1/2 hours, and I agitate the water regularly for aeration. The fish enter the tank vigorous and without distress. Does this seem OK? After reading this, my own criticisms (or opportunities for improvement) would be:

1. Maybe I should test the salinity and/or pH in both my tank and the acclimation water to ensure that they're equal or at least close, or is this overkill? I guess it would be good to do this once to prove that I'm equalizing the parameters.

2. Maybe I should put an airstone in the acclimation container?


Bax - Interesting about the small wrasses "holing up" at night. I had never read that before and was stunned when I saw mine in that hole, not moving. One of my biggest fears was that my emerald crab would happen upon it and decide to go for an easy meal; this still worries me, but I would hope that the fish would swim away if the crab got too close.

If my wrasse lives beyond the dreaded 3-day mark, and remains healthy over the next month, I think I'll go ahead and get another juvenile true perc. I want to do this before my current clownfish gets too old (she's about 6-7 months old now, as best as I can tell). Of course, I'll quarantine the new arrival .

No hurry on your ReefKeeper settings, just interested to hear it. I'm quite happy with my current settings. The fan and heaters no longer fight one another, and my evaporative losses are significantly less.

It doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread, but due to my own anal retentiveness I must make a correction. Channel 7 on my ReefKeeper is for the Mag12 CL pump, and Channel 8 is for the Mag5 sump return pump. I will now return to the regularly scheduled thread.

Bruce - John and I were talking with the other experienced reef guy at our preferred LFS, and after describing my entire setup to him, and the order in which I stocked it, he felt that I was losing fish to the "New Tank Syndrome." I haven't searched about this, but basically it's an issue of system immaturity. In this thread "moderated" by Eric Borneman, which I've referred to previously, there is a nice description of the evolution of a new tank. Apparantly there are materials, toxins, chemicals, etc., for which we do not test, that are released into the water column by our corals and other organisms in our tanks. We fictitiously believe we have excellent water quality that can accomodate fish as soon as our salinity, pH, and nitrates test well. We then expose these fish to toxins that they cannot withstand, and they die "mysteriously" in our tanks. True, many people get away with this, but I think this is why my fish were dying and perhaps this is happening to you as well. If my wrasse dies within the next few days, I've resolved myself to waiting a full 3 months, so that my tank is 6 months old, before getting another fish. Don't be discouraged, but instead just slow down and enjoy what you have now. Take some more time to observe the feather dusters that are likely showing up in crevases where you haven't looked before. Check out the worm tunnels in your sand, and look at the pods crawling around your rocks. I'm saying this to you, and to me, with the hopes of convincing myself to do the same if my wrasse doesn't make it.

Keep us informed about your ATO system, and definitely post your ReefKeeper settings once you hook it up. Hope you're feeling better. Half of Austin is sick now, too.

Cprowler - If my spills result in a new floor, that'll spell the end of this hobby for me, that's for sure. It'll probably be a couple of years before I get another tank, so my goal from here on out will be to minimize damage!

[Bax]

With my orchid dottybacks, I'd be more afraid for the crab!

[bcoons]

Originally posted by Dudester
1. Maybe I should test the salinity and/or pH in both my tank and the acclimation water to ensure that they're equal or at least close, or is this overkill? I guess it would be good to do this once to prove that I'm equalizing the parameters.

I go through almost exactly the same acclimation process as you describe, also using a hang-on-tank container and using a turkey baster to slowly change the water over a period of an hour or so.

On salinity, when I brought home my last fish from the LFS I tested the bag water for both salinity and pH before starting the process. Our local little LFS stated that they keep their tanks at 1.025 and 8.2. When I tested the water in the bag with my refractometer it read 1.033. I also now have a Pinpoint electronic salinity monitor and it read 1.034 (it seems to consistently read .001 above the refractometer.)

My measured pH of the bag water was 7.6. Now, these reading of the bag water were after a 30 minute drive home from the LFS, so that probably may make a diference, but I don't know how much.

Anyway, when I do the acclimation, I test the chamber water for salinity as I go thru the process, and make sure I bring it down to match the tank water. (My tank runs 1.024 and 8.2)

Mike, when I get down your way I'll bring the Pinpoint salinity monitor. It would be interesting to see how it compares against your refractometer. I'll also bring a clamp on ammeter if you want to measure any specific or total power loads. It's pretty handy to know exactly what your loads are when designing a back up power system.

Bruce

[melev]

During acclimation, the fish can be subjected to oxygen depravation and excessive heat as well.

When floating the bag in your tank, make sure the lights don't cook the air in the bag. Clamp the bag to the edge of the tank or on something nearby like some wiring. Clothespins work great.

10 minutes later, open the bag so fresh air goes in. Add a small amount of water. I don't measure it, but it is probably 1/2 to 3/4 of a cup. Do this every five minutes. I try to introduce fish within 45 minutes of floating, to avoid lack of oxygen.

If you like, pour your creature & water through a net set on a bucket. That way you'll place only the fish in the tank and virtually no LFS water. A few days ago, I bought a new copperband. I decided to reach in the bag and take him out with my hand instead of the chance of letting him get stuck in the net. He's doing quite well in quarantine and eating some mysis food when I add it to the tank. I spoiled him today with some baby brine shrimp, just to assure he's getting enough food while he waits to go in the reef.

Plus, I'm able to observe him well as he hasn't figured out a place to hide due to the way the rocks are placed in that tank. Each time I see him eat, I know that he's getting used to the food I offer. Later, when he's in the reef, he'll recognize the same food and not miss his meal.

[Bax]

OK , I'll chime in too, I use a bucket with a smaller container in side I pour the LFS water into the smaller container then run an air tube with a valve from the QT to the container. I let the container over flow until the water in the bucket is deep enough for the fish. Just a drip every other second or so. I release the fish to the bucket and continue dripping for about 1 1/2 hours. I then scoop the fish up in the smaller container. Lift that to the tank and then sort of scoop the fish into the tank.

I do the same from QT to display. Maybe it's over kill but using this method I am eight for eight loosing only one fish to a very quick crocea and another to the female dotty back who just didn't like the candy hog ... at all.

My very first fish I acclimated like all my fresh water fish, by just floating in the bag and adding water. It passed on in less than a week.

patients ... patients ... patients

[Cprowler]

Originally posted by melev
During acclimation, the fish can be subjected to oxygen depravation and excessive heat as well.

When floating the bag in your tank, make sure the lights don't cook the air in the bag. Clamp the bag to the edge of the tank or on something nearby like some wiring. Clothespins work great.

10 minutes later, open the bag so fresh air goes in. Add a small amount of water. I don't measure it, but it is probably 1/2 to 3/4 of a cup. Do this every five minutes. I try to introduce fish within 45 minutes of floating, to avoid lack of oxygen.

If you like, pour your creature & water through a net set on a bucket. That way you'll place only the fish in the tank and virtually no LFS water. A few days ago, I bought a new copperband. I decided to reach in the bag and take him out with my hand instead of the chance of letting him get stuck in the net. He's doing quite well in quarantine and eating some mysis food when I add it to the tank. I spoiled him today with some baby brine shrimp, just to assure he's getting enough food while he waits to go in the reef.

Plus, I'm able to observe him well as he hasn't figured out a place to hide due to the way the rocks are placed in that tank. Each time I see him eat, I know that he's getting used to the food I offer. Later, when he's in the reef, he'll recognize the same food and not miss his meal.

Hey Marc, how long do you quarantine for and your also checking for ick and other problems? Along with getting them comfortable with the new water chemistry and food before they go to their new home? Do you use water from the display to do water changes in the QT tank? Anything else I didn't cover?

Sorry to bust in Dudester.

[melev]

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of the quarantine tank for a number of reasons. Laziness comes to mind, but no-one will believe me. Putting a new fish in a reef tank seems more condusive to survival because there is more abundance of what that fish may be seeking, food wise as well as familiarity to where it came from.

However, quarantining does allow me to look at the fish to make sure it doesn't break out with a disease in my reef. And the huge plus factor is that it can eat without competition, assuring it will get a meal even if it is shy.

For best results, I'd suggest quarantining the fish for three weeks. If you haven't seen any disease pop up after 21 days, it should be good to go.

The water in the q-tank is already there, as I had the system running with what was left from the frag tank I took down weeks ago. I added a sponge from the sump to add some bacteria, added the LR and what bits of life were still going, and added all new saltwater. By the time I got the CBB, the tank was doing just fine and I have a few ricordia and zoos living happily in their little home.

For water changes, I drain out a few gallons and use brand new (aged) saltwater. I'm constantly amazed how clean the water is in the bucket next to the water I'm about to dispose of in the other bucket.

When I acclimate the fish to the other tank, I'll just use a bucket and some q-tank water, then add reef water every five minutes for 45 minutes. Then I'll place the fish in the reef.

[Dudester]

bcoons - If you and I are referring to the same LFS, they've told me that they keep their fish-only tanks at 1.019, and their tanks with corals at 1.024 (or maybe 1.025, I can't remember). It's common for the pH in the bag water to drop, but the decline is slow so it's tolerated by the fish. pH is one of the things we're acclimating our fish to when introducing them to our tanks. Not sure why the salinity would be 1.033, since there's no evaporative losses in the bag .

When you come down, please do bring the salinity monitor and ampmeter - sounds like a good experiment, and you'll probably convince me to buy both of those devices .

melev - I saw that CBB on your thread. It's a beauty and I hope this one works out for you. And I didn't even know you quarantined your new fish. If you mentioned it in your thread, I must have missed it. Based on how you described the acclimation process, I can't see that I have been doing anything grossly wrong or harmful. The major disparity is the increased length of time for my acclimation, although I do ensure adequate aeration by agitating the fish's water regularly. Next time I'll speed up the process and test params, just for fun.

Bax - Your technique sounds like the safest of all, and your success clearly shows that it's effective. Did you construct your air line tube dripper yourself or did you purchase it commercially? How do you keep the tubing in the tank (the source end of the tubing)? It sounds interesting and I'd like to give your technique a try as well.

Cprowler -

Sorry to bust in Dudester.

No bust at all. In fact you beat me to the punch .

[bcoons]

Dudester - No, I was referring to my little LFS in Killeen. There is a small one there and also here in Copperas Cove, but neither one does a lot im salt water. They're most FW fish (and birds!)

Both of the local places say they test their salinity with one of those floating hydrometer thingees. I wonder if they can be that far off from my refractometer?

[melev]

Heck yes, they can. Those are quite inaccurate.

[bcoons]

Originally posted by melev
Heck yes, they can. Those are quite inaccurate.

Marc, do you have any experience with the Pinpoint salinity monitor. I bought one of those and calibrated it pretty carefully. I also have a refractometer that I have calibrated at the same time. Water samples from my tank generally read 1.024 on the refractometer and 1.025 on the meter. Basically a difference of .001 S.G. on every sample I've tried. Does this sound about right? I'm guessing that .001 is within measurement error on the refractometer.

Oops, didn't mean to hijack your thread, Mike.

[melev]

No, I was referring to your question about floating hydrometers, and even moreso for swing arm hydrometers.

I've not purchased a Pinpoint Salinity Monitor. What did it cost you? Do you have to keep the probe wet? How often does it need to be calibrated, and how is that done specifically?

[bcoons]

Originally posted by melev
I've not purchased a Pinpoint Salinity Monitor. What did it cost you? Do you have to keep the probe wet? How often does it need to be calibrated, and how is that done specifically?

I purchased mine from jcaquatics on Ebay for $116.00 You don't have to keep the probe wet (as I've heard you have to do for the pH probe). It comes with a bottle of calibration fluid that you use to adjust the meter to 53 microsiemens (SG of 1.0260). The instructions say it should be re-calibrated "periodically." The calibration only takes a few minutes.

I like using it. You can place the probe permanently in a sump, and mount the meter head to continuously monitor salinity, or turn the switch off to save battery and only check it when you want. In my case I don't have a sump yet, so I just turn on the meter, place the probe in my tank, and let the numbers settle for a couple minutes as the tank and probe temperature equalize. Once the reading settles down it stays there and is consistent. I can take my reading and then pull out the probe and put the unit back in the drawer.

The readout is in microsiemens (mS), but there is a chart to convert to S.G. and ppt. It is very sensitive, with the readout having a precision of less than .0001 S.G. I'm quickly becoming used to the mS scale.

I'm still doing manual evap water topoff, so each night I place the probe in the tank, turn on the meter, and wait 3-4 minutes for the reading to stabilize. Usually it's about 51.3 mS, or 1.0250 S.G. I then slowly add RO water and watch the reading decrease down to 49.5 mS, which is 1.0240 S.G. After a little practice you can dial it right in. I like it.

After I get a sump and ATO set up, I'll just mount it on my system monitor panel with all the other instruments and controler and use it to spot check salinity. I'll have a quick detach mount so I can also take it out to the garage when I'm making up a batch of salt water and monitor the salinity in the mixing tub.

Hmmmm, I guess I got a little long winded. Sorry.

[melev]

That is excellent, bcoons. Thanks for the review.

[Bax]

Bax - Your technique sounds like the safest of all, and your success clearly shows that it's effective. Did you construct your air line tube dripper yourself or did you purchase it commercially? How do you keep the tubing in the tank (the source end of the tubing)? It sounds interesting and I'd like to give your technique a try as well.

Simple air tube is all I use with a cheap (6 for $2) air valves from the LFS. I use small clip style clamps from HD (pack of 4 at the resgister) to clip the line to the tank and the bucket. I pull a siphon and controll the drips with the little valve thingy. If the tube wants to crimp, I rubberband it to the clips.

Saw this method at two seperate LFSs and figured there must be something to it.

[Dudester]

Just a quick update, since I reached a major milestone today. My sixline wrasse has been alive in my tank for 4 days now. This is huge, since all of my fatalities occurred within 72 hours. Considering that it looks great (healthy), I feel like I'm out of the danger zone and that it will do well. Hopefully now I can consider myself out of the period of "new tank syndrome," although I'm not going to get carried away and stock the tank quickly. Although ...

I worked on New Year's Eve but my wife met someone whose husband has a 200 gallon SW tank. She said he's looking to get rid of some corals, so I'll have to give him a call .

[Bax]

Cool

[Dudester]

All good news to report. My sixline is still well, and last night I saw one of the absolute nicest home aquariums ever. The man I referred to in my last post called me and mentioned that he had to frag several of his corals due to overgrowth, and he offered the frags to me. When I saw his tank my jaw dropped . Aside from SCUBA diving I've never seen montiporas so huge. He has a 175 gallon mixed reef and it's absolutely stunning! His purple tang and sailfin tangs were gorgeous. He had broken off huge pieces of his monti's and generously gave them to me since he was just going to throw them out. His tank has been up for 4 years and his corals all grew from very small frags. He also gave me an acro frag and a small zoanthid colony. What a great guy, and I can't wait until I can give him something from my tank in return - I think the pink zoos I have would look good in his tank. At any rate, I got them all home late last night and did a quick acclimation before putting them in. They're not secured to their final resting places, and quite frankly there's too much for my tank so I'll give many of them away. Hopefully this won't harm my water and if I see any signs of stress I'll just do another water change (I did one earlier in the day yesterday). I'll take some pics soon and post'em.

[Cprowler]

Nice! Looking forward to the pics.

[bcoons]

Wow! Sounds like you got a pretty good deal there. And also glad to hear your wrasse is doing well. Lots of good additions to your tank. Hopefully, someday my tank will be settled down and I'll have enough light for some corals. But I'm dropping back a notch after my losses and going a little slower.

I got my Reef Keeper tonight, and it took all of about 4 minutes to program it up. Tomorrow morning I'll mount it to the stand (I need to get some black sheet metal screws, I'm anal about things like that ) and hook it up. Then I'll start to faricate a mounting bracket for my ATO float switch on the tank.

I've modified my AquaClear 110 filter into a refugium. I'll let the sealer cure one more day, then I need to find some live sand and Cheato algae somewhere. I'll probably have to get that in Austin or Houston (where I'm going on Thurs.) Hopefully a refuge will help my nitrates a little bit.

Busy day tomorrow, and I'll bet most of Austin shuts down for the football game tomorrow evening.


How 'bout some more pics?

Bruce

[Bax]

Nice score on the frags!!!

[Dudester]

I'll get some pics tonight when I get home from work and post them tomorrow. The new corals are doing great and are happy under my lights. I still need to mount them into their permanent positions and hope to have time to do that this weekend. I know, melev, you mentioned that you try not to move your corals around if possible, but I had to hastily get them into my tank that night and I just looked for a place where they'd fit and not get blown around in the current. Wait 'til you see the pics - some of the monti "frags" are actually so big I might have to get rid of them or frag them down further so they'll fit into my tank.



Well, after reconsidering it further, I think I can find a place for some of the larger pieces .

I need to get some black sheet metal screws, I'm anal about things like that

Me too, that's all I used in my cabinet, and for mounting my ReefKeeper and power strip.

Bruce, you can use "dead" sand for your refugium and seed it with a cup full of sand from your tank, or you can get a cup from my tank if you like. Put the dead sand in first, then lay the cup of "live" sand on top and poke it down into the other layer to distribute the bacteria. In short time you'll have a fuge full of live sand and at much less cost. I'd give you a ball of chaeto if I could but I can't seem to grow it in my fuge. I had to strip out a bunch of dead chaeto about 6 weeks ago, and the small ball that was left fails to grow at all. I'm wondering if:
1. my bulb is inadequate (I'm using the 2700K version of the bulb melev writes about),
2. my light doesn't cover enough of the fuge since it's located in the front and aims toward the rear,
3. maybe too much flow in my fuge, or
4. maybe not enough nutrients in my water to keep it alive?

I doubt it's #3 as my sump/fuge is run by a Mag5 at about 5' of head. I don't think #4 is the reason, since the bryopsis seems to thrive quite well in my display tank and cyanobacteria covers most of the LR in my fuge. That leaves me with #'s 1 and 2, and 2 seems harder to fix than 1. So I'll probably order the appropriate 5600K bulb and see if that makes a difference in my chaeto growth.


Hey all, here's a question. While picking bryopsis off of my sand bed (yes, it's actually growing off of my sand bed too) I noticed that the sand is beginning to form large rocky clumps. Does this mean that I need more sand-sifting snails to move things around more? I had a conch but it died over a month ago, maybe I should get another one. Although I think it died of starvation so maybe that's a bad idea. Should I break up the clumps or leave them alone - I don't want to cause an ammonia spike by manipulating them. Any help/advice is, as always, appreciated.

Anyway, back to work so I can finish up and get home to take some pics!

[bcoons]

Originally posted by Dudester
Bruce, you can use "dead" sand for your refugium and seed it with a cup full of sand from your tank, or you can get a cup from my tank if you like. Put the dead sand in first, then lay the cup of "live" sand on top and poke it down into the other layer to distribute the bacteria. In short time you'll have a fuge full of live sand and at much less cost.

OK, here's another really NOOB question. The only "sand" in my tank was a 20 lb bag of Carib Sea Arag-alive crushed coral. I was told when I got it that it had some beneficial bacteria in it, but I have never seen any of the critters that others talk about in their live sand. Things like worms, etc. I think it's just crushed coral sand. So, would that be the right stuff to put in my modified AC 'fuge? Or should I get some real "sand"? I'm driving down to Houston tomorrow (wife needs to hit the big Chinese shopping center there) and I'm taking a side trip over to Village Tropical Fish. I probably can get some real live sand there. I don't need much, just an inch or two in the bottom of the AC 500 filter. I can also probably get some cheato there. I also still need a light for it. {sigh} So many things to figure out.

I got my Reef Keeper mounted today. (With the black screws! ) It's pretty slick. It sure helped clean up the wiring in my cabinet. Next project is the ATO system. I got a 19 qt Rubbermaid container as a RO reservoir that will fit under the stand. Next I need to fab a bracket to hold the float switch on the tank. That may have to wait until Saturday when I can get to the milling machine at the school robotics lab (I mentor a high school robotics competition team, and they have a NICE machine shop!) So that project will probably go on to next week.

I'm afraid I'm no help on the macro algae problem in your 'fuge. I'll be interested in what the other guys say. This has been such an informative thread for me. Both our tanks are relatively small, and fairly new, so I feel very comfortable that a lot of the knowledge gained here in this thread is directly applicable to my situation. Yours is quite a bit more advanced than mine, but I'm trying to catch up. And, of course, I go to sleep every night thinking about plans for the NEXT tank.

Bruce

[Bax]

bcoons

If it is really crushed coral as in chunks of shells, that is the same path I was lead down by an LFS during the start up of my first 26. It is too course and will capture and hold too much detritus. After discovering RC and reading a lot, ... and then a lot more, ... I removed most of the CC and added a 1-2" layer of fine Filpro sand (clean silica sand) and then 2" of CaribSea Aragonite sand some live and some base sand. I am now of the opinion that the "live sand " product is probably not worth the extra $10 a bag. Get some sand (a few inches in a qt zip lock bag) from a fellow reefer and seed you sand bed. It'll be fine.

AS for you AC 500 you probably need to have 3-4" to get any nitrate reduction going on in there and that may fill it up to much for macro algae (which will definitely give you nitrate export) so you have to balance what you want. Be sure to place some sand in there and some rock rubble too, it'll generate tons of pods