light fixture question

[timrandlerv10]

i'm still looking for lights, and i found some great 36" fixtures--2x250 MH, 4x39 T5, 9 lunar lights.

...but i have a 48" tank.


the cost difference is pretty significant, about $150 from 36 to 48.

could i just center it over the tank? am i really losing a whole lot by not getting those extra inches? (besides the 4x(54-39) watts of T5?)


Thanks!

tim

[NicoleC]

Generally, I would not recommend it. Whether you can get away with it or not really depends on the animals you keep and how you aquascape your tank.

Still, 2x250w MH is overkill on a 44g, IMO. 2x150 or 175 will be plenty and the supplemental T5's or PCs unnecessary unless you are trying to create a particular spectrum profile or want them for a dawn/dusk effect. (Personally, I like that.)

You will get more bang for your lighting buck with the lower wattage bulbs and some high quality reflectors instead of a pre-made fixture, and then you can space the lights more appropriately for your tank. The reflectors will be pricey, but they don't take electricity and don't need to be replaced every year.

44g that's 48" long? Weird. How deep is that tank?

[Tomoko Schum]

Nicole - He is trying to get the light for his new 75 gallon tank.

Like Nicole said, it depends on what you want to keep in the tank.
You will obviously have a very bright spot in the center where the light from the two MH bulbs overlaps and a lot darker ends. If you don't mind the look, you can keep a variety of corals appropriately placed in each zone depending on their light requirement. Your tank can be quite interesting, that way.

If you center the light fixture over your tank, I am sure that your fixture would not look out of place, although a 48" fixture may give you a bit more cleaner/finished look.

With that said, $150 difference is not huge especially when you can do it right the first time, if you know what I mean. There are a few things that I would not skimp on. The light is one of them.

Tomoko

[timrandlerv10]

my two NEW choices:
used coralife 2x150 w/2x96PC

no name generic 2x250 w/4x65CF http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Metal-Halide-...QQcmdZViewItem

OuterOrbit 2x250 MH 4x54 T5 reconditioned

another generic 2x250, 4x65CF http://cgi.ebay.com/24-380W-Metal-Ha...QQcmdZViewItem (this is 24" but he rotates each week)

I think the outerorbit reconditioned should be my first choice, as its the only one with T5's. For some reason, I like those over CF or PC. They all get pretty close to the same price, which is a little over $400 shipped.

If I could make my magic fixture, it would be 2x250 MH 15k and 2x54 T5 super actinic. It would have remote electronic ballasts. There would be controls for each light so I could not only phase them in for light and color, but also simulate an east-to-west sun movement. The T5's wouldnt be offset (one flush on one edge and one flush to the other) but would run the full lenght, and the MH bulbs would be...horizonatally justified? (I hope you guys use powerpoint!) Equidistant or evenly spaced?

None of these do exactly that, but the outerorbit comes close. Depending on who else is shopping, sometimes the prices get a little higher.

I just dont want to do a canopy...I'm not sure why, but mainly its the project factor--I've hit the current limit of DIY because we're trying to move. Even if we werent, I'm just wary of my ability to actually build it and have it be what I want.

Thoughts?

The overflow is finished, and the silicone should be cured by tonight, so we're hoping to put all the sand and rock in tomorrow, and start adding water from the old tank with a series of small daily/bidaily water changes.

Merry Christmas!

tim

[NicoleC]

CF and PC are the same, just different names. Remember, additional T5, VHO or PC isn't necessary.

I don't like canopies either. Two pendants (not spotlights), fired from the same ballast, may be an option other than a single long fixture. For example, the Ice Cap, Sunlight Supply or Hamilton pendants. No adding T5's with those, though.

The Aqua Media Oceanlight 8 inch 2 x 250 Watt MH + 2 x 54 Watt T5 (AQ1831) is almost your dream light... but has a magnetic ballast. And it's darn good looking.

Or the Current USA 48 inch Outer Orbit 2x150w 10K HQI-MH w/ 4x54W T5 HO & 18 Lunar Lights (CU01072)

If money were no object, I'd for for the Giesemann Infinit

[timrandlerv10]

150 or 250 for the 75? i like the idea of having extra, but its going to be a nem/zoa/random tank...

[Siffy]

Have you thought about a 6x54w T5 HO system? W/O Metal Halides.

It's a personal preference thing, but I like VHO's over T5's for actinic supplementation. T5 design focuses on intensity, and imo it's just not there yet in terms of looks. And I definitely don't like the look of PCs for actinic. Too pink usually. On a 75g (which is 24" deep correct?) I'd use 250watt metal halides if planning to keep primarily SPS or high light Zoanthids. If you're planning a mix tank, you'll be fine with 175w or 150w MH, but you'll be forced to place high light corals in the upper 2/3's or so of the tank. I don't like DE bulbs. Again just a personal preference. As it seems you know exactly what you want, you may want to look into having someone build a canopy for you. That way you can place any bulb exactly where you want it. It will cost more, but the benefits might be worth it.

I'd also recommend waiting to setup the new tank, since you are about to move. Having 2 tanks will make your move easier. By setting up the new tank at the new residence and then moving all corals in 1 day.

FWIW, in case you want to know, I run a 175w Iwasaki Aqua2 15K on an ARO Pro Magnetic ballast with 2 24" VHO URI 03 Actinics on an AS-220 ballast over a 29g. Soon to be a 40g or 65g with a frag tank plumbed in. I already have the 40g (and the stand was finished yesterday), but am already considering a 65g display with the 40g as the frag tank. In any case, my existing lighting will likely move to the display tank (in a canopy) and a new T5 only setup will be over the frag tank (29g or 40g).

There's just too many options huh? GL

[Siffy]

Sunlight Tek Light T5 Hood - 48" x 6 bulb
http://thereefstop.com/index.php?act...&productId=524

That might be of interest to you.

[NicoleC]

What kind of anemones? BTAs will be plenty fine under 150/175's, as will zoanthids. I used to keep those (and much more) under only 4x65w PCs with no problems in a 100g.

LTAs should also be fine under 150/175's -- carpets, for example, will probably appreciate the stronger PAR. But much depends on your water clarity and of course the depth of the tank and how high the lights are from the surface of the water. Oh, and the bulbs, and the spectrum and the type of ballast and the reflector...

If it were my 75g tank and I didn't expect to keep shallow water corals, I'd do dual 150's on an electronic ballast, in a 10k or 14k bulb and be done with it. (Most people like blue lights even though the shallow water corals prefer a broader spectrum, so 10k's usually go with actinics to satisfy both needs and aesthetics.) The extra PAR you get with the 250's is not that much stronger than the 150 or 175's, and it is hard to justify the significantly higher electrical usage unless your animals actually need it.

If you are going to show no self control and come how with an expensive brightly colored shallow water acro on a whim... get the more powerful lights. Or else you'll be buying lights again because you can't keep them colored up.

[timrandlerv10]

BTA, maybe a sebae. i would be happy to put some random acros as high as possible in the tank if i do get some

how much difference between 150 and 250 at the bottom of the tank?
i think fixture height is about 4" over the tank, water level is about 1" down from top.
4" of sand if things go well (ie my math).
water clarity could help, but we'll see how well i do at that

the electricity is free, but our a/c is tough to manage, so a chiller is out of the question. extra light is no problem! (a certain amount of extra heat is ok, but too much gets beyond our ability to manage our air temp)

MH are mandatory

[Siffy]

With that much sand (essentially a 20" tall tank now), I'd go with a pair of 175watt MH.

[NicoleC]

There are no easy answers here about the difference between 150/175 and 250 watts. Ultimately, you have to measure it with a PAR meter. Otherwise, I'll refer you to Sanjay's excellent work researching bulbs, reflectors ballasts and more, most of which is way over my head.

[Siffy]

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=590771

is a good read, for the most part, after his RK and AA articles.

[timrandlerv10]

im off to read the article, quick question:
are 175s and 150s interchangeable?

if i get a DE fixture, can i swap the ballasts and bulbs to go from 150 to 250, or is there something else?

thanks,

tim

[Siffy]

150/250, I think so, but I'm not certain.

150/175, definitely not. As 150w bulbs are double ended (snap in), and 175w bulbs are single ended (screw in). 250watt bulbs come in both varieties.

[Tomoko Schum]

As far as I know, a ballast for 150 DE is not interchangeable with a ballast for 250 DE. I believe that the socket sizes are also different between the two.

Tomoko

[Siffy]

Tomoko is right, I looked and it's 70/150 DE that are interchangeable. I knew two were, but not which two. The 250 must have a larger contact, I assume. And running either a 250w ballast on a 150w bulb or a 150w ballast on a 250w bulb will end up ruining the bulb.

[Tomoko Schum]

It also depends on manufacturers. My Ushio 70W MH bulb is way too small for a 150W socket.

Overdriving a MH bulb is a very dangerous thing. Your bulb may explode on you (according to a bulb manufacturer.)

Tomoko

[Siffy]

Length wise, yes. But you can shorten the distance between the 2 clips and insert a 70w bulb. At least according to hellolights.

http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp...ROD&ProdID=398

The size of the clips should be the same.

OT, Tomoko, what do you think about the 70w Ushio bulbs? Or other 70w bulbs for that matter. I have one that needs to be replaced, and I was considering the Ushio 14k. I bought a used JBJ K-2 Viper 70W a while back and never was impressed with the intensity of the stock bulb. It may have been older than I was told though, as the bulb exploded inside the fixture after about a month of usage. I don't plan to use it until I setup a nano again, but wanted to get and try out the bulb sooner.

[Tomoko Schum]

My Ushio's 70W is a 10K and it's very bright and crisp white on an AROMAT electronic ballast. I used to use it with a 65W actinic 03 PC bulb and everything looked rather washed out. I am thinking that a VHO super actinic bulb may work nicely with it. However, I would try 14K Phoenix first.

As for shortening the distance on the sockets, yes, you can do that if you have two separate sockets rather than a fixture. I was running my Ushio in an outdoor halogen security light fixture and the sockets were fixed in its place tightly. This DIY set up worked really well. I may set up a 20G tank with it and a Phoenix 70W 14K bulb if someone can build me a canopy to house it.

Tomoko

[Siffy]

You'd recommend the Phoenix 14k before the Ushio 14k or Ushio 10k in a 70w DE? Who carries them?

[timrandlerv10]

just to be sure, i'm not talking about mixing bulbs and ballasts, i'm talking about DE sockets--the 150 and the 250 DE sockets are different sizes, and if i want to go from 150 to 250, i need not just new bulbs and ballasts, but new sockets as well. correct?

[Siffy]

Yes, you'll need new ($15-25 each) sockets (as well as new ballasts and bulbs, the $$$ part) if you decide to change from 150s to 250s later on. The only pieces you'd get to reuse are the reflectors and wiring (and likely not that if the new ballast comes with a quick disconnect).

Also, sorry for stealing your thread for a few posts. Hope you didn't mind.

[Tomoko Schum]

Siffy -

I suggest that you get a 14K or a 20K bulb for the viper since it does not have any actinic supplement. A 10K bulb in a viper will make everything look washed out. saltycritter.com has a few 70W 14K bulbs listed. They are not listing 70W Phoenix bulbs right now though. I thought they offered it in the past.

Tomoko

[Siffy]

Thanks. A 14k bulb (Ushio makes one) was the plan, and for that reason. I was thinking about putting it over an 8g biocube at some point. And it wouldn't have actinics unless I could find some 12" or smaller T5 HOs. Finding a 12" T5 is easy enough, but finding them in the color spectrums we need isn't.