Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > Coral Forums > Coral Propagation and Aquaculture

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08/28/2007, 08:17 AM
Philip Root Philip Root is offline
Coral Farmer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Posts: 784
I would not put a greenhouse any place that a major hurrcane could hit.
__________________
Law of Coral Shopping
If you don't buy it when you first see it, It won't be there when you come back.
  #52  
Old 08/28/2007, 09:25 AM
ctenophore ctenophore is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Title Town 2006 & 2007, FL
Posts: 418
I went hiking in the mountains of western NC once, and saw a whole mountainside of broken trees anywhere from 4" to 24". I asked the guide what happened, he said it was from a hurricane that came ashore near Pensacola. This was in the mid-late 90's I believe. I think any state with ocean border is susceptible, even northern Alabama. A major can have 75+ winds extending 200 miles from its center.
  #53  
Old 08/28/2007, 10:43 AM
raaden raaden is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 382
Except for an algae bloom that was brought on by some bad stock I just got, everything has been going great for my setup. Especially good when you figure in that we have had record heat that is way above anything I planned for. The problems have been mostly at home where I haven't had any internet now for 2 weeks (although I do at the gh site thanx to a nice guy across the farm who is letting me use his wifi), this has made working from home impossible which means that I have had less time to spend at the gh.

BeanAnimal,

One thing to remember is that humidity is really high inside a greenhouse especially in the winter and in my case I will need to be able to let the tanks "breathe" so that the wood doesn't rot. with that said I am considering trying out using styrofoam sheets to insulate the sides of the vats in the winter and leaving the bottom open. I will have 5-6" of sand so that should do a good job of insulating the bottom from the water. Another thing I am trying to figure out would be how to automate the covering of the tanks at night like you suggested. This is probably the most effective idea for keeping the tanks warm at night. The only problem is how do I make this an automated procedure.

My manual idea is to staple a large sheet of styrofoam, cut to the inside dimensions of the vats, to a sheet of OSB and just put it on top of each vat at night and take it off in the morning. The problem is that it will be pretty big and heavy to do everyday twice a day (better start working out )

while I think a heating tower could work well I am not sure that a hydronic cooling tower would provide enough temp differential in the southern heat to work. I know the evap cooler had a tough time on a couple of the 100+ days we recently had. In the midwest where humidity stays low this would probably work very well.

A smaller gh would only make things worse for the summer but would help in the winter. In the summer a taller gh helps tremendously with keeping the ground level cool as long as you can exhaust the hot air that collects at the top of the gh.


AFA natural disasters goes just about anywhere is going to have some sort of issue with some type of natural disaster (flooding, earthquake, tornado, hail, drought, hurricane etc). My parents who live in Western PA just had a T-storm with shear winds of over 80mph so just try to use the layout of the land to minimize any affect. If you speak with your agricultural extension office they can provide alot of information on how to do this, and may even make a site visit to help (they did in my case.).
  #54  
Old 08/30/2007, 09:17 AM
dendronepthya dendronepthya is offline
Aspiring Polymath
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Akron, OH, USA
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
Originally posted by redox
dendro what all do you grow?
I grow mainly large polyp stony corals such as acanthastrea, blastomussa, and several kinds of brains. I also have a variety of mushrooms and zoanthids. I don't have much in the way of SPS, but I do have some plating montipora and hydonophora. Like I mentioned, the SPS corals tend to brown up in the colder months, and take a long time to regain their color in the summer.
__________________
- Than (dendro)
  #55  
Old 08/30/2007, 11:17 PM
Salamander Salamander is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
Posts: 1,109
I think you could find a great location in AZ. Its not all scorching desert as most think. Here in Flagstaff at 7000 feet our highest recorded temperature is 96 but averages about just in the low 80's in the summer and we have plenty of sunshine (more than CO as someone mentioned or most any other states).

Sure it may get cold here but not as cold as most of the US. There are many locations with a little lower elevation where you can find cool summers and temperate summers.

We have few natural disasters aside from wildfire which you can easily protect yourself from with any bit of common sense (just ask me if you need help, its my life).

And did I mention the great potential for wind and solar energy generation?
__________________
I feel more like myself now than I did before.
  #56  
Old 08/31/2007, 01:15 PM
lifesaver7887 lifesaver7887 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MINNESOTA
Posts: 20
WHY NOT MINNESOTA???
  #57  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:23 PM
Legatio Legatio is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 16
raaden:

To automate coverings i plan on trying the styrofoam glued to marine plywood coverings hinged on 1 side of the vats with timed reversable motors pulling cords attached to the corners of the non hinged side, then after winter unattach and store till next year.

another idea was to use rails, cut small plywood pegs to hold a thermal blanket and motorize it sorta like a hurricane shutter but i cant figure out how to automated the covering process, only the uncovering and my buddy wont let me take apart his hurricane shutter to see how they do it
  #58  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:34 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
There are two simple ways.

1) Using rigid slats that run on a simple track. The slats have to be shaped so that they do no buckle when they are pushed. They simply inreel and push out over the track. This is "easy" in theory, likely a PITA in practice.

So the second option.

A soft blanket that is pulled over the tank via tracks and a pull cord that rides in the tracks. If you look at an automated pool cover you will be instantly inspired

The third option is also very simple. Take a look at the tarp covers on coal and rock trucks. The pivot on an arm and pull the cover over the load. The rolls are spring loaded so that when the arm retracts the tarp rolls up. This is by far the simplest design. You just need a little bit of clearance over the tank for the arms to swing through their arc. (think of the bonnet over a baby carriage.)
  #59  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:36 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
http://www.harpstarps.com/windupsystems.htm
  #60  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:43 PM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
Our commercial greenhouse have the entire upper ridge as automated doors as well as we have shade clothe systems that pull the cloth in the rafters. The cloth is just on a rail w/ pullys in 10' sections. When clsoed the fold up into a nice little buble and don't shade anything.
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #61  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:44 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
http://www.coverpools.com/index.jsp


I am starting to tire of posts getting lost when you click submit! You almost have to copy and paste each reply in case you lose it.

Anyway... I will try again.

If you build the tanks off of the ground, you can then lower the tarp arms to help decrease the needed clearance. That way the arms share a common axle and the motor can be placed underneath.

The truck stuff is also cheap enough that you may be able to purchase and adapt some of it.
  #62  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:45 PM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal

I am starting to tire of posts getting lost when you click submit!
Yah, it's been getting progressively worse over the last few months, huh?
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #63  
Old 09/07/2007, 12:58 PM
Legatio Legatio is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 16
Thank You bean
  #64  
Old 09/07/2007, 01:04 PM
mr.wilson mr.wilson is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 674
The greenhouse industry supplies lots of roll-out (low E) foil coverings and mechanisms. They can be manually cranked out, or run by computer controller with a motorized system. If you're handy, you can adapt an awning or industrial winch system, but I'm not sure if you'd save any money

Most of these systems are set-up to mount just below the polycarbonate or polyethylene greenhouse covering, but they can be adapted to fit directly over the vat.

They are designed to reflect radiant energy (heat) back into the greenhouse or vat, thus lowering the U-factor. They work on a different principal than traditional "R" value qualities of home insulation, so foil-type materials are better than styrofoam. The premium brands have gas inside them that further reduce heat transfer.

The benefit of covering the vats, rather than the greenhouse itself, is a reduction in evaporative cooling.

Now that the heat wave is over, we can count the days till the heating discussions.
  #65  
Old 09/07/2007, 01:24 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Ahh I jsut had a thought!

If you use the tarp system that is used on dumptrucks you could easily build it yourself.

You do not need ANY motors.

The axle that connects to the tarp arms could be easily actuated by a cheap linear actuator and pivot arm or cam. You could also use an actuator on each tarp arm of you can not run an axle under the tank. 2 limit switches and a timer would be all that is needed per tank.

You could also wire them all to a single timer via relays. Intsead of a timer, you could use a photo sensor, etc.

Kind of want to build a greenhouse now!
  #66  
Old 09/07/2007, 02:34 PM
raaden raaden is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 382
I know what you mean about losing posts... I just spent an hour trying to write an update to the GH operations thread and when I hit submit it just sat there and sat there. I even thought about the copy and paste while it was hung but the info was gone already..

I have been trying to come up with an idea for using those insulated foil/mylar blankets to cover the top. Unfortunately a hinged hard cover won't work as any space I would have to lift the cover would block the light. I think the soft covers are the idea though with a spring loaded roller. I could use a bar attached to the end and string wrapping under the vat to unroll it. I just wonder how good of a seal I would need to prevent the heat from escaping.

Trust me I am very glad to see the heat fading around here (down to the low/mid 90's), but am starting to worry about the cold season (getting down to low 60's at night). I am still waiting to get the propane folks out to install the line to the heater, but so far the tanks have not gotten below 75 at night and lately have only been hitting 80-81 during the day. If I could only get another 4 months of this weather I would be set
  #67  
Old 09/07/2007, 05:24 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
If you use the "dumptruck tarp" method, cover can be wider than the tank and will be pulled down tight over top of it. This would of course dictate that the plumbing be through bulkheads.

Moisture will become trapped in the tarp as it rolls back up (I would guess). I do not know if this will become a problem or not, heat and trapped moisture are great bacterial farms. Mildew or mold could be the result.
  #68  
Old 09/08/2007, 10:30 AM
redox redox is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: OBX
Posts: 1,738
well im getting ready to find out how good the Carolinas is. This tropical storm is making a B-line for me. Brian I have a stack of awning motors that I took off on a demo job im working on. These motors were used to actuate a hurricane shutter. they are also used to run awnings in and out. You are welcome to as many as you need. I only saved them because they cost so much money, I have no need for them and you might be able to use them Im sure you could use them to rig up a retractable cover for your vats. They fit inside a roller tube that you could simply put your mylar on. It would roll it up to a nice tight roll ,and would not take up any of your space.
__________________
Why isnt my dollar worth a dollar
  #69  
Old 09/08/2007, 10:38 AM
Sk8r Sk8r is offline
Team RC Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 12,245
Has anybody considered Solatubes for this kind of operation? A whole lot easier to shield, less vulnerable to a lot of things.
__________________
Sk8r

"Make haste slowly." ---Augustus.

"If anything CAN go wrong, it will, and at the worst possible moment."---St. Murphy.
  #70  
Old 09/08/2007, 11:26 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
You would be severely limiting your light by using solatubes. The greenhouse collects usable direct sun all day
  #71  
Old 09/09/2007, 04:49 PM
redox redox is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: OBX
Posts: 1,738
gabriel fizabel just some heavy rain we lucked out.
__________________
Why isnt my dollar worth a dollar
  #72  
Old 09/10/2007, 08:42 AM
raaden raaden is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 382
glad to hear you made it through the first storm redox, we didn't get anything at all here.

Been thinking about higher elevations, and I am not sure that is a good idea, but I don't know... Light levels are much higher in elevated areas as well as higher ozone levels. I would also think temp swings are much more dramatic at elevation with the reduced basal cloud formation.
  #73  
Old 09/10/2007, 09:30 AM
mr.wilson mr.wilson is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 674
Quote:
Originally posted by raaden

Light levels are much higher in elevated areas as well as higher ozone levels. I would also think temp swings are much more dramatic at elevation with the reduced basal cloud formation.
I know very little about geography and weather, so excuse my rudimentary questions.

Why are light levels greater at higher elevation? Are you talking about being "above the clouds"? or does it have something to do with thinner air? Wouldn't you have problems operating certain equipment in higher elevation?

My parents live at 3440' elevation, where the air is thinner and things work differently (human and animal physiology, physical activity, aging, oxidization, car engines, baking temperatures, rapid weather changes, and I think you can even run faster) than it does closer to sea level. What kind of elevation are you talking about? Doesn't the loss of oxygen negate any gains in light intensity? isn't this the same light intensity that we are filtering out anyway? or are you talking about a longer photo-period, some how?

Are you talking about elevation to a plateau just above sea level, where it's hotter?

I don't understand the part about higher ozone levels either?

A friend of mine lives in the mountains in Pacific Costa Rica (I think it's Atenas?), where it's 76 F all year round, with no tropical storms, or rainy season. The only problem is it's over an hour and a half to the airport.

I've been looking at properties with natural gas wells around here (Ontario), but I still need to do some learnin'. Some of my clients have natural gas generators for emergencies. They cost about $12,000.00. I'm wondering if I would get enough natural gas to take my self (almost) off the grid?
  #74  
Old 09/10/2007, 01:33 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
You can get a 12kW Natural Gas standby genset for less than $3,000 That is more than enough to run your setup.
  #75  
Old 09/10/2007, 07:02 PM
mr.wilson mr.wilson is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 674
Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
You can get a 12kW Natural Gas standby genset for less than $3,000 That is more than enough to run your setup.
Are they noisy, or in any way problematic? Can it run non-stop?
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central™ Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2009