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  #26  
Old 03/20/2005, 03:37 PM
Bayliner Bayliner is offline
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I don't think you can buy a dead clam at the store. If it was dead it would rot and not be very good for eating.

They are usualy shipped on ice to the store alive.. like lobster and other fresh sea food...

Cam
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  #27  
Old 03/20/2005, 03:50 PM
The Shrimp X The Shrimp X is offline
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oh wow, i always thought they were dead. hmm, i guess i might have to go pick 2 or 3 up and put them in my fuge.
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  #28  
Old 03/21/2005, 01:18 PM
OldmillXxX OldmillXxX is offline
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photo?

Do you have any pictures of the ones that you are referring to? As I stated, I bought some awhile back and they came in a bag of about 20-30 and were labeled 'live'.

Just wondering if what you are using are the same or different. Mine were black.


Tim
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  #29  
Old 03/21/2005, 02:05 PM
jlehigh jlehigh is offline
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I'll take some pics tonight. There is a VERY high probability what you have are Manilla clams since they are the primary clam type literally all over the world.
  #30  
Old 03/21/2005, 03:05 PM
LanT LanT is offline
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I don't think the black one's are Manila clams. I think they are Alaskan something clams.
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  #31  
Old 03/24/2005, 03:25 AM
Thurge Thurge is offline
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Watch your skimmer!!!!!
I was keeping Oystuers until I installed my Euroreef skimmer, and it started pulling the phyto out of the tank along with the skimmate. Th first one I intorduced was from the grocery store fish counter. Just droped it in cause it wasn't in water so I really didn't have anything to acclimate it with. That origional oystuer stayed with me for over a year.
All the rest i got at a Sushi bar My girl wanted some sushi so I went along. Upon noticing the oystuers on the half shell I hatched a plan. We went back the next weekend and I brought a bag. It took a minute for the waiter to understand that I wanted "a dozen unopened oystuers; one of each species listed. And here is a bag for them."
If ws my spiny oystuers that told me things were amiss when they started gaping, and it was too late by them for the edible oystuers. I haven't restocked the oystuers yet as i have been playing with the skimmer to ensure I don't pull the phyto out of the tank, but with my next tank I am planning a seperate oysture fuge as a prefilter of sorts to the macro fuge.
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  #32  
Old 03/24/2005, 11:18 AM
OldmillXxX OldmillXxX is offline
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I have thought along those lines many times; using cheap clams or such for filtration. You would think there would be plenty in the water column for them to syphon out if you had a large reef and fed heavily.

Between macro algae and clams, or other filter feeders one could theorize that a tank could be possible without the use of a skimmer or atificial filtration. Good water movement and small critters to break down the bigger wastes would also be beneficial. Basically, a mature tank.

Are there any threads with people doing just that? Using animals, live rock, macros, etc... for filtration? I guess the ALL natural way? No skimmers, no water changes, no additions besides regular, nutrient-rich feedings.

Kinda out there, but it seems possible with the right balance of each.


Tim
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  #33  
Old 03/24/2005, 12:45 PM
WILDTHING WILDTHING is offline
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I too am very interested in this kind of system but I feel that an important part of such a system would be large reg/weekly water changes. If for no other reason than the need to reset parameters instead of having to dump chemicals into the tank daily or weekly. Except Kalk of course. Things get used up in a system, you neeed to replace them. But the most important thing to remember is that all those animals working for you also are eating and going to the bathroom, yes some of it will be reused and eaten by even smaller/different animals but there is a point where in a closed system there is no where else to go so it must be removed by a skimmer or by large water changes. I do both. I feed daily with phyto and fish/coral food, this is allowed to circulate for about 4 hrs through the tank and sump/fuge. Then I turn on my skimmer and set it to skim wet, which it does for 20hrs. Rinse, repeat. I do weekly 25g water changes on a 150g system. So far so good. I have no algae, my fish are healthy, I have not lost a frag in a long time, and I have never lost one that has had a week or two to settle into my system. But I also haven't tried to keep any demanding acros....yet
  #34  
Old 03/24/2005, 01:21 PM
jlehigh jlehigh is offline
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Steve Tyree maintains a 400 gal tank with only natural filteration such as sponges, turnicates ect.

Here is a brief article though look to Steve Tyree's official site for his books and CD's.

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/tyree1.html
  #35  
Old 04/17/2005, 01:00 AM
Psionicdragon Psionicdragon is offline
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Any updates?
  #36  
Old 04/17/2005, 09:58 AM
Dr4g0nf1y Dr4g0nf1y is offline
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Tagging Along
  #37  
Old 04/17/2005, 10:54 AM
OldmillXxX OldmillXxX is offline
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Still waiting on those photos.
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  #38  
Old 04/18/2005, 10:26 AM
Mr.Lizard Mr.Lizard is offline
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Bayliner has it right- YEARS ago I used to work as a prep cook at McCormick and Schmick's restaurant in Denver (McCormick's Fish House) and we always got fresh stuff flown in every day....the menu was printed up new every day depending on what was available. We always had several varieties of oysters, as well as blue crabs occasionally which were also shipped live. They were very cold, so they couldn't move too quickly, which helped when you had to grab them and 'clean' them !!

Clams and oysters occasionally would be partially open, but you can tell if they're alive by sprinkling a bit of freshwater on them which should make them close their shells....they move slowly when they are kept cold for storage/shipping but they will definitely move. We'd always throw out the ones that didn't, because they were dead. This is one of the reasons you're supposed to rinse them before you cook 'em- for sorting them out. Clams and other mussels go bad REALLY fast after they die- a lot faster than fish or most other items. They can look healthy today and be totally dead and loose from their shell by the next morning.

Hope this helps- I'm considering a few of these 'store clams' myself- partially for filtration, but also for some additional diversity and interest factor!
  #39  
Old 04/18/2005, 10:42 AM
Mr.Lizard Mr.Lizard is offline
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Oh- and Oldmill- I am currently running a 55g reef without a skimmer, and I seldom do much more than add water for evaporation make up. I think Wildthing has it right, though- you really need to make up used trace elements and such somehow, and replacing some of the water with a good salt mix is an easy way to do it....I also add some with B-Ionic and SeaChem Trace, especially since I have a bunch of corals, fish, one derasa, and one gold maxima. I also use the Boyd's Chemi-Pure to help reduce the 'icky stuff' along with a trickle filter/sump connected to a refugium designed to flow through the substrate and then into the sump area (two overflows, one return pump). The 'fuge area has one chamber with chaeto and one with live rock, macro for tang food, and a few mangroves. I realize the mangroves aren't really doing all that much, but hey- every little bit helps! Check my gallery for pics. The main point I'm trying to make is that you still need some sort of nutrient export to take care of by-products as well as some fresh nutrients. I've used the SeaChem Purigen before also- it works really well as well. I recall a reading about a test tank using the Boyd's which has had no water changes in 5 years- and they breed clownfish in it!
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  #40  
Old 04/18/2005, 12:35 PM
OldmillXxX OldmillXxX is offline
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Thanks Mr. Lizard.

I understand what you mean about the replacing lost trace elements and calcium when needed. I thought about that as I was writing, but just got a little lazy and didn't include it.

Some of these theories and proven practices (Boyd) are my plan for when I get my 55 up and running again. I will; however, be implementing a skimmer for when/if the natural way does not work to keep up. It is a work in progress with no time limit. I am not in a big hurry this time.

Thanks for the information.
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  #41  
Old 04/18/2005, 08:17 PM
Mr.Lizard Mr.Lizard is offline
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Yeah- I figured you knew, really- but a completely self sufficient system would be cool, Eh?? A little boring perhaps, but very nice and easy! (I get a kick out of being the one who makes sure things go well- a matter of personal pride!)
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  #42  
Old 04/18/2005, 08:42 PM
jlehigh jlehigh is offline
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Clam Pics

Well I guess you really did want to see pics Sorry it took me so long. I added some tank shots to the albumn just so you know I don't keep my tank as scuzzy as my refugium

http://community.webshots.com/album/325873261ctNMeQ
  #43  
Old 04/18/2005, 09:38 PM
olemos olemos is offline
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I did se once in the discovery channel, they put a few clams in to a small tank with dirty water and within a few hours the water was crystal clear the base of the study was to show how clams help clean sea water, as the tide brings water in to the bays where these clams live they filter it.
Pleas keep us updated, aside from possible contamination to the tank, it is a very interesting idea that mite have good results .
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  #44  
Old 04/19/2005, 01:45 PM
tomterreefic tomterreefic is offline
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Looks alot like these from what I can tell. Sounds like an idea. I'm tagging along too.

"Cleaner Clams"
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  #45  
Old 04/19/2005, 01:59 PM
gobygoby gobygoby is offline
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the above link didnt work for me. ayway we can get a better pic of the clam.??

Thanks
Goby
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  #46  
Old 04/19/2005, 02:00 PM
tomterreefic tomterreefic is offline
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Looks like link isn't gonna work. But if you go to www.saltwaterfish.com In the invert page, they sell "Cleaner Calms" for $5.99 each. I wonder if they're the same?
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  #47  
Old 04/19/2005, 02:16 PM
jlehigh jlehigh is offline
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I am not sure what makes a "better" picture of a clam. It's a clam.. google pictures of manilla clams. That is what my clams are.
  #48  
Old 04/21/2005, 07:38 PM
Dr4g0nf1y Dr4g0nf1y is offline
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I just picked up three large Cherrystone clams tonight. Only ran me $1.06. I have a ton of bags around so I mixed a gallon of SW and I'm going to float them and see if they purge in the bag.
  #49  
Old 04/21/2005, 09:09 PM
gobygoby gobygoby is offline
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Jlehigh,
I wasnt saying your pic was bad. I just wanted to see a closer view so I could get more detail of the clam.


Thanks
Goby
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  #50  
Old 04/21/2005, 10:29 PM
Mr.Lizard Mr.Lizard is offline
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Good price, Dr4g0nf1y- they're .79 each here in Denver....and I had to look quite a few places before I found any. Still didn't pick any up....yet! I just put 2 new giant clams in my reef last week, too, so I'm going to wait and see first- see my gallery! One derasa (three in the pic) and a gold maxima!
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