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  #51  
Old 01/08/2008, 10:15 AM
Mental1 Mental1 is offline
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It's not fair. It's a free market. If you are willing to pay the price then the price will stay where it is. If people refuse to pay the price, it will go down. If the market floods with cheaper alternatives, the price will go down. The market structure has enabled some to make a bunch of money: GOOD FOR THEM! YIPPEE America Land of the free and home of the brave! I just voted. I love this country because people are able to see a way to make money and they do it! That what we stand for, that's why people STILL want to come here. So do you want to start setting prices? What???? In every industry there exists opportunists. Welcome to life.
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  #52  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:47 AM
SPStoner SPStoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 250G
Perhaps this is the reason that essentially all aussie pieces imported to Canada are no longer available to the Canadian hobbyist, they are simply re-exported to the US. Disconcerting for local, long-term Canadian hobbiests to see this occur, but this is a business after all.

If it means anything, in the US you can buy these re-exported aussie-canadian acans cheaper than we can in Canada before they are re-exported.
Hey Dave! Long time. I owe you a phone call.

I didn't realize this was happening also. I shouldn't be surprised as I was aware of several US busineses doing this for other non-Aussie corals before. So, are you saying that these places get in say 100 pieces and all of them go to the States? Or, just the choice stuff?


PauChi- I am not sure what you mean by minimal, but my business ships things to and from Australia / New Zealand on a daily basis. Going on a per kilo basis, the costs to/from Los Angeles to Australia on average are about 30% more than say Fiji. 30% is 30%. You can average it out per piece, but the importers are paying by weight, and they pay it whether the piece lives or arrives dead. Factor in the cost of any DOA corals, and the cost is pretty substantial. Not saying that this justifies the extreme price of some of these, but it does partly explain. Also, I am not sure what, if any, duties are charged on livestock.

As stated by others, this is a free market economy. This is the same reason that a Queen Angel is $140 in our pet store, but $12,000 in Japan! It is what people are willing to pay.
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  #53  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:10 PM
PauChi PauChi is offline
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SPStoner _ no pun intended but this was meant for the Canadian "Premium Tax" Aussie Coral issue .... collection of corals and shipping and handling costs plus other tax(es) doesn't justify a $800.00 Coral .... that's what I really intended to say.
  #54  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:25 PM
sufunk sufunk is offline
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People (some intentionally) seem to be missing my point.

Obviously, we are a free country and people can charge whatever they want for something. If some people are dumb enough to pay that in the hopes of making in back in frags later, fine.

My point is that vendors charging obscene amounts for corals that they paid a tiny fraction of what they are charging is BAD business and BAD for our hobby. Just accepting this and saying" its a free country, dont buy it" is ridiculous and will lead our hobby down the same horrible trend of overpriced Special, limited edition, one of a kind crazes that has wiped out other hobbies.

A few years ago when i got into the hobby, people bought corals for THEIR tanks and to look good. Now, it seems like about 75-90% of the people in this forum only buy corals to frag them and make money because they are tyree, le, or whatever. SAD

Every coral i buy is meant to be in my tank and LOOK good. Not some pencil eraser sized $250 frag that MAYBE in 5-7 years will be big enough to enjoy in my tank. Most others it seems, buy these frags hoping that they can grow them out just enough to frag them and make some easy $$$$$.

I can barely even remember seeing pics in this forum of actual reef tanks as opposed to bare tanks with 4 billion frag disks of various aussie or tyree corals scattered along the bottom. Seems that there has been a definite shift in the last 12-18 months. Awhile back people tank's and their corals were bought for viewing pleasure and the owners enjoyment, now they are just bought to frag and make $$$$$$. I'm in the minority but i think that is VERY sad!
  #55  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:32 PM
PauChi PauChi is offline
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Is this not a past time Hobby anymore???? Not about more Money ... more Money and LE Status!! I'm the minority league too ....
  #56  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:49 PM
Serioussnaps Serioussnaps is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by andrewkw
Another thing the per head prices are done by chop shops, no offense to them but these are guys buying colonies from other stores or wholesalers not importing their own. In turn they aren't left with the plain ones no one wants, but they also aren't paying the sub 100$ a colony price places that are importing their own are. Those prices will change as they are left with frags unsold and as more people find their own colonies.

Some people would also rather pay $100 a head for 2 heads rather then $800 for a 50 polyp colony. Why I don't know, maybe $200 is all they want to spend even if for 5x more they could get x10 more. A lot of people don't have access to the nice colonies since there are only a few select places importing them. A lot of people are scared to frag acans too they're expensive and there is some moderate risk you take in chopping them. Sure for a lot of us its relatively easy but if you've never done it then its downright scary.

While the per polyp prices may drop to more reasonable levels (they have never been that extreme here in Canada) The colony prices seem to be holding their ground. Should the importing stop then the prices will skyrocket. If 1000s of colonies coming in isn't slowing down the market, I don't see what will.

Just because importing stops doesn't mean that acans stop coming. These things GROW and REPRODUCE and over some time even if importing stops the price will go down. It has happened with every other coral known to the hobby.
  #57  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:56 PM
Serioussnaps Serioussnaps is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by All Delight
I really don't remember of a thread where Clint was selling Aussie acans for $150 to $250 a polyp. Maybe Japanese, but not Aussie. If you can dig it up that would be great. I'd like to read it so I can laugh.

I know of only one place that sells or sold Aussie acans for more then $100 a polyp, and that was Atlantis. But they are over priced IMO. But everyone defends Atlantis by saying well they have a huge collection of rarities and you can get it all in one place, and that they are nice people. Thats cool, whatever. But I doubt that they even sell it that much now days.

When the aussie first came around I can understand $100 a polyp. But never $250.

What websites do you keep refering too that sells them for so much? Really I'd like to know.
I remember the thread and I agree with him. I think it is hilarious how people get reamed up the you know what and then talk about how nice some guy is. Of course he is nice to you! He just reamed you out for a nice chunk of change. Remember smiling faces tell lies.

He wasn't referring to a website but a thread where people talked Clint up and he basically said it was a mockery and they jumped on him.

This was when they FIRST started to be imported and Clint was selling thousand(s) dollar colonies to folks claiming how great a deal they were getting. Before places like Atlantis even had them on their sites FWIW.

I think paying that much for a coral that is imported like wildfire now is a joke. Go buy some stock and get rich(er).
  #58  
Old 01/08/2008, 01:06 PM
Serioussnaps Serioussnaps is offline
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You are also ignoring the fact that an "INSANE RAINBOW KISS MY BUTT LORD" cost the same to collect and import as the brown out next to it FWIW....that is the issue people have is the gouging....ME...I don't mind because I could care less about ACANS as long as you fools don't go inflating the prices of my beloved blastos. It took more time to age that $400 bottle of wine. I can't attest to your analogy between humans and education and goods like corals or wine. It is silly. Placing value on education and human beings is immature and downright callow and the analogy was worthless, however, wine is a great analogy except the 400 dollar bottle took alot more aging time, effort, and grape. There is nothing intrinsically different between a pretty and ugly acan...they are the same being. With grapes they taste differently and some are harder to grow than others and can only be done in certain environments with certain skilled laborers.

Do you see why your logic holds no water?


Quote:
Originally posted by All Delight
Yes it does matter. Please tell me you're not serious with that statement.

Japanese lords are not common in the US market. They aren't even imported legally. How many LFS have you seen Japanese lords at? Sure if you go to Japan they're very cheap. And Ricordia Floridas are very expensive.

Your statement is as narrow minded as saying why pay Kobe Bryant $19 million a year, just get Eddie Jones and pay him $2 million a year. Whats the differece, a shooting guard is a shooting guard right?

or

Why go to UCLA for an education, just go to Long Beach State. Why is it so much more to go to UCLA. Is a college not a college?

or

Its like drinking a $400 bottle of wine, why not just get a $20 bottle of wine. Is wine not wine?

I'm not arguing the fact that some lords are expensive. Some are. But sorry to say, all lords are not created equal. Just like humans, the prettier ones are harder to find and more in demand.
  #59  
Old 01/08/2008, 01:22 PM
PauChi PauChi is offline
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Quote:
Go buy some stock and get rich(er).
That's One of my New Years resolution .....
  #60  
Old 01/08/2008, 01:27 PM
otiso777 otiso777 is offline
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The demand is higher for the rainbow acans so the price is higher. If people didn't pay that high price for them, then the price would go down. That's how our economy works. I don't understand what the argument is about.
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  #61  
Old 01/08/2008, 02:51 PM
juniormc8704 juniormc8704 is offline
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this is the single most pointless conversation ever. Yes some cost more than others....and? You are also assuming a lot that anyone actually pays these prices. Its called marketing....price some so insanely over market value, and then the ones that are still way over market value but WAY cheaper sell and people feel like they got a deal...and if in this process someone is dumb enough to pay 800 bucks a polyp well then its obvious that person is less intelligent than a box of rocks.
  #62  
Old 01/08/2008, 03:08 PM
scotmc scotmc is offline
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This is common in all luxury items. Why fault the enterpeur?? They take all the risks, come up with the capital and then hope for the reward. Most people will not spend $800 on a colony. Have the ability to frag it and then market it. They should be able to charge what ever the market demands. If the demand slows they lose money. They can't get it back from the market. As in all things, this will not last. The people who got in late or too greedy will lose.
  #63  
Old 01/08/2008, 03:44 PM
All Delight All Delight is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serioussnaps
I remember the thread and I agree with him. I think it is hilarious how people get reamed up the you know what and then talk about how nice some guy is. Of course he is nice to you! He just reamed you out for a nice chunk of change. Remember smiling faces tell lies.

He wasn't referring to a website but a thread where people talked Clint up and he basically said it was a mockery and they jumped on him.

This was when they FIRST started to be imported and Clint was selling thousand(s) dollar colonies to folks claiming how great a deal they were getting. Before places like Atlantis even had them on their sites FWIW.

I think paying that much for a coral that is imported like wildfire now is a joke. Go buy some stock and get rich(er).
Serious, here's a quote from sufunk. In the last paragraph he specificly states "websites".

"I had this same argument months ago. People on here talking up aussie acans at $200-300 a HEAD and making that out to be a steal and the lowlifes selling them for that to be great guys. They buy them, start threads with photoshopped pics talking about how amazing they are and how the price will never go down, Then low and behold, coincidentally, they have a few selling threads for aussie acans making them an amazing profit.

My lfs, Coralreef farm, has VERY nice multi colored aussie acans for $150-200 and these colonies have between 15-25 heads. Dont know where these aussie price gouging supporters learned their math but that is between $6-15 a head. Much more reasonable and FAIR unlike the $100-250 a head many gougers are charging.

Unfortunately, most of the websites that are supported by the people in this forum think that there isnt a problem with gouging us for a 1000-2500% profit"
  #64  
Old 01/08/2008, 04:01 PM
scotmc scotmc is offline
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Don't fault a good salesmen..this thread is pointless.
  #65  
Old 01/08/2008, 04:17 PM
All Delight All Delight is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serioussnaps
I remember the thread and I agree with him. I think it is hilarious how people get reamed up the you know what and then talk about how nice some guy is. Of course he is nice to you! He just reamed you out for a nice chunk of change. Remember smiling faces tell lies.

He wasn't referring to a website but a thread where people talked Clint up and he basically said it was a mockery and they jumped on him.

This was when they FIRST started to be imported and Clint was selling thousand(s) dollar colonies to folks claiming how great a deal they were getting. Before places like Atlantis even had them on their sites FWIW.

I think paying that much for a coral that is imported like wildfire now is a joke. Go buy some stock and get rich(er).
Thinking about it, I think its farily reasonable that Clint was selling colonies for thousand(s). And if I do remember correctly those were huge colonies. At least 50-80 polyps right? Those weren't small 15 - 20 polyp colonies. So if he was selling them for $200 a polyp, that means your saying he was selling those colonies for about $10,000? No way.

I remember seeing colonies on his site for like $1500 to $2500, but yet those were really big colonies. In my opinion, those prices weren't crazy. Taking into consideration.
1. Who had them?
2. Those were huge colonies
3. Acan craze
4. Aussie stuff just hit

So if you want to and have to be one of those people who are the first to have it, have something no one has, and you $2000 to spend. Go for it.

I for one have never bought anything from Clint. I have talked to him one the phone. And yes he was nice. He didn't even ream me yet. Maybe I had potential.

So I'm clear. You're stating that when someone is nice to me after I bought something from them, I just got reamed? And the vendors who are jerks to me are actually giving me a good deal?

And those analogies I threw out, were outrageoues. Thats my point. A college is not a college. A shooting guard is not a shooting guard. Wine is not wine. An acan is not an acan.

One thing is if you don't even want or care about aussie corals then yes you won't understand why people pay what they do. Just like I don't collect palys, I wouldn't pay $50 or $40 or whatever purple deaths go for. Just not my cup of tea. However I would pay and did pay $100 for 3 polyps of a rainbow aussie acan.

And BigE did state he's not into LPS, so that basically explains why he doesn't understand paying that much for lords. He doesn't even really like them.
  #66  
Old 01/08/2008, 04:19 PM
All Delight All Delight is offline
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Re: Bend over & buy an Acan

Quote:
Originally posted by Big E
The prices are out of control for these Aussie Acans. These pieces are everywhere & most aren't even that nice. I've seen at least 4-5 vendors selling these.

If you're buying these why? The market is being flooded, why not be a bit patient & force them to lower prices. I'm not heavy into LPS so maybe I don't understand. This is crazier than any of the Sps rare coral infaltion hype I've seen over the years.
I'm not an SPS guy, but I do know about the Purple Monster and Pink Lemonade craze.

I'd say those were pretty crazy......
  #67  
Old 01/08/2008, 04:46 PM
gflat65 gflat65 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by scotmc
this thread is pointless.
.
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  #68  
Old 01/08/2008, 05:02 PM
Duce Duce is offline
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I can be totally wrong on this but from what I gathered....in Assue when export they charge by the size of the colony. Instead of sending in nice size colony where the length and width are fairly equal they are now sending in pieces that are more length than width but charge by the length...essentially doubling the cost to some LFS....seems like someone is getting "smart" at the other side.

I agreed with both Andrew and 250G..the prices of Aussie Acan has gone through the roof and turned off a lot of collectors here.... hence SPStoner I made a comment in another of your post...we got to see them but can't buy them...

I do think the topic of crazy coral prices is a topic that have been discussed to death already and the end of the day one man's garbage is another man's treasure....no one who spend thousands of dollar on a collector item is going to call himself "stupid" for wasting the thousands of dollar...they have to justify why they spend the thousands and proof that it is worth that much....
  #69  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:03 PM
250G 250G is offline
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Hey Tony - it has been a while. Hope you had a good new year.

IME this year in Toronto apx. 85% of the acans imported into Canada get re-exported to the US (excluding the first 10 acans imported). This includes all the nice ones, and lets be honest, the aussie acans imported to Canada have been some of the best seen to date. One of our stores has the best supplier hands down and generally speaking they are all essentially premium pieces! Bottom line if you are not interested in buying 30 acans or som you got no chance at the nicest one's.

If you knew what the vendors in the US were paying for these re-exported Canadian colonies you would appreciate that their prices are reasonable. I saw Clint's website when he updated it with the colonies for sale - mark-ups were very fair. As I mentioned earlier - I could have bought them in the US cheaper than I could have bought them in Canada before being re-exported. Clin't won't be retiring early from selling these.

The last time I bagged up an aussie acan I was told it was $1500 when it came time to pay!!!! Clearly it stayed at the store and was later "exported" at a much lower price.

Quote:
Originally posted by SPStoner
Hey Dave! Long time. I owe you a phone call.

I didn't realize this was happening also. I shouldn't be surprised as I was aware of several US busineses doing this for other non-Aussie corals before. So, are you saying that these places get in say 100 pieces and all of them go to the States? Or, just the choice stuff?

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  #70  
Old 01/08/2008, 08:16 PM
gasman059 gasman059 is offline
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lol great thread

BTW this has been happening 4 ever in the hobby.

U guys remember about 8 -10 years ago the elegance and acan craze- yes there was such a thing not aussie but just plain old acans. Then it died down just to esourface nowLOL

anyways hee's the deal i'll post two acan colonies that i bought each for $50 u would not believe the colors they have now.

Anyways it is what it is buyer beware!
  #71  
Old 01/08/2008, 08:22 PM
gasman059 gasman059 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by gasman059
lol great thread

BTW this has been happening 4 ever in the hobby.

U guys remember about 8 -10 years ago the elegance and acan craze- yes there was such a thing not aussie but just plain old acans. Then it died down just to esourface nowLOL

anyways hee's the deal i'll post some acan colonies that i bought each for $45 u would not believe the colors they have now.

Anyways it is what it is buyer beware!

[/IMG]
I payed $20 for this one

[/IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by gasman059; 01/08/2008 at 08:36 PM.
  #72  
Old 01/08/2008, 08:33 PM
gasman059 gasman059 is offline
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one more

Ii do agree with serious and current king . But unfortunately is the nature of the beast.

Its up to the consumer to realize. And yes impulse craze buying creates the aforementioned problems.

Just like those threads what's your favorite coral , skimmer and so forth they are designed sometimes with one thing in mind to promote a certain product. I do believe that RC does do a good job weeding those out.
Same acan 6 months later.

[/IMG]
[/IMG]
  #73  
Old 01/08/2008, 10:50 PM
Hogfish77 Hogfish77 is offline
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I wonder who's insane or dumb enough to buy those "so-called Japanese acans" on captivereef's site.
  #74  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:05 PM
jjmcat jjmcat is offline
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I am sure someone will.
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  #75  
Old 01/09/2008, 01:51 AM
yellowslayer13 yellowslayer13 is offline
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why are you all bickering i know i am willing to pay 100 for 3 nice polyps because in a year it will be 10 or 15 so who cares
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