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#51
09/29/2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
I'd like to know what other people think about mixing times. IME I've tested really FRESHLY mixed salt water (no aeration), and the results were very strange. Impossibly high alk, for example.
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
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#52
09/29/2007, 07:43 PM
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I can buy the ones available on the West Coast, but some aren't even available here, like KZ
 THe commons (IO,Oceanic,etc) I can get no problem, and since Aquacraft is local, I can get the 2 part they sell. I can get the bottled Catalina, the trucked Catalina and another NSW source from Half Moon Bay, CA. If need be, I could have samples from Fiji, Tonga, Bali, Hawaii and Indo in a week, if they want to do other NSW sources. I can get other countries, but they may take another couple weeks.I bet I can get the KZ so I'll give that a whirl this week. Since I have great shipping rates, I'll buy and fly all that I can find from the West Coast
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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#56
09/29/2007, 08:41 PM
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What a deal  I can cover the west coast ones as I posted above, so you can use any donations to get the east coast ones Do we send full 50g mixes, or should we sample each one and just send the samples?
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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#57
09/29/2007, 09:01 PM
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I think this is excellent, and I strongly encourage everyone that is involved to keep it simple. If you are supposed to send in a salt, don't try to 'score' a free bag or sample from the mfg --- because we want to know what each hobbyist is getting. If the mfg has prior knowledge that we are testing it, we might receive a 'special' sample that tests better than the norm.
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Marc Levenson - member of DFWMAS |
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#58
09/29/2007, 09:10 PM
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<<< What we would like for you to provide us is a complete specification for the project. Our thoughts are to run the 14 parameter panel on each of the 15 (including Catalina) salt varieties you listed on the thread. We think that buying one bag of each brand from the east coast and one from the west coast and testing both bags might yield some information on relative consistency from batch to batch. So we are thinking two panels for each brand. Tell us, though, about any details that will be important to you in terms of the testing procedure (concentrations, time after mixing before testing, etc...). >>>
I think the samples should be mixed up to NSW levels of 35 PPT and the salt samples should be mixed up and aerated for 24 hrs. prior to testing to ensure that most all of the salt mixes go completely into solution. Temps are not critical IMO as long as they are all fairly close from sample to sample.
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Florida Live Rock Addict. |
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#59
09/29/2007, 09:13 PM
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Feature Article: Inland Reef Aquaria Salt Study, Part I
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1 Feature Article: Inland Reef Aquaria Salt Study Part II http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
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#61
09/29/2007, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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#62
09/29/2007, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
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#63
09/29/2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Good job everyone. Now to find someone with some KZ RBS, If you have any or know anyone with some please give some up for science! I'll also call Captive Oceans to see if they have an ETA on getting more. James
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Old Reefers Never Die, they just...join the crew! |
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#64
09/30/2007, 07:27 AM
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Quick overview to build on.
All water is created by a good RO/DI system. Tested for 0 TDS and then specifically tested to make sure there are no phosphates and silicas in the water (two most common). All RO/DI water should be collected in seeled glass containers to avoid contamination. The RO/DI water should be airated for 24 hours with a small pump and then mixed to 35% salinity of each salt and again mixed for an additional 24 hrs to fully disolve. The pH recorded and samples taken. Carlo |
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#65
09/30/2007, 08:09 AM
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first ty so much Jeremy
(AquariumWaterTesting.com) for offering your services. That is amazing of you. As an added idea what would really be a kicker there is a company here on the east coast that is called http://www.natureef.com/h2otest.htm If you guys want lets call them as well and see what two different companies doing the exact same test come out with. I would think that would even everything out. |
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#66
09/30/2007, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Definately agree on not getting salt direct from the mfg!
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~Jason |
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#67
09/30/2007, 09:09 AM
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I would think that the temperature should be nearly 76-78F to get the correct salinity reading. Several have posted it should be mixed and aerated for 24 hours, and I agree.
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Marc Levenson - member of DFWMAS |
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#68
09/30/2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
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#69
09/30/2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
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#70
09/30/2007, 09:48 AM
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Using a refractometer, temperature shouldn't matter.
In fact, you let the sample cool to room temperature before testing SG. Unless I am wrong...
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~Jason Last edited by DrBegalke; 09/30/2007 at 09:58 AM. |
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#71
09/30/2007, 12:13 PM
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As for the salt samples....
I suggest that the samples be bought at a retailer and the entire bag/sample be sent to the testers. They should open it only when its time for mixing. This way we know that the sample is not contaminated or has any outside factors involved with it. This might cost a bit more but I think it will be well worth it in credibility. This is a great project!! Thanks to all who are working to make it happen! einsteins |
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#72
09/30/2007, 12:31 PM
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Why not use lab grade distilled H20? Even the best RO/DI at 0 ppm has contaiminates. A conductivity meter only picks up conductives when reading TDS.
I could spike a gallon of RO/DI water with a quart of fuel oil and still read 0 ppm. Quote:
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#73
09/30/2007, 02:16 PM
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Kysad is correct.
And some food for thought Std mixing procedures in many labs for pure water is not RO/DI water but pre-filtered Lab grade DI's, which produce water @ 18.2MƱ-cm.. Such units are in the range of$1,000 - $2,000 and the distilled units are ~ $2,000 -$4,000. I do not know what they use. We need to find out. An EC meter is the std for seawater Salinity. There are NO so called Seawater refracts accept some of those by MISCO and some others, which have up to 3 calibration points and are electronic and can be set to seawater stds. On hydrometers who's , what kind ? Density or SG , they are not the same thing ? A lab grade hydrometer for seawater is 15 C and aquarium hydrometers are 25 C. What the normal procedure is, add 35 grams of the salt mix to 965 ml of water and check the Salinity and then readjust Salinity to 35 ppt by adding more salt mix. The difference in the two gives you the moisture content. Most salts will be well below the 35 ppt on only using 35 grams. Some may be as low as 29 ppt, meaning 6 grams of that initial 35 grams is water. This why a 50 gal bag does not yield a Salinity of 35 ppt but something less, like in the mid 40 gal range. Dr needs to call or contact them and see if they can test for Bromide and by what means. These guys at AquariumWaterTesting should be set to a std of normal seawater testing procedures such as those outlined by Atkinson - Bingman salt assay or at least use this as a guide. The Composition Of Several Synthetic Seawater Mixes http://web.archive.org/web/200012150.../1/default.asp AquariumWaterTesting should be aloud to get or collect their own salt as they have stated they would. This means no tampering or contaminating of the samples of the bags by "us "what so ever. This makes it an independant study with out 10's of hands in said bag an 10's of "us" sending them samples from "our" open bags. I know what many are thinkin' on this issue. "They" want to send in part of their bag so "they" can test it against the AquariumWaterTesting report with their test kits. We will have to decide want we want to do here. We MUST make sure they have no contact or take any advice what so ever from ANY salt manufacture that may be watching this thread, who may try to give them any input or advice on how to run tests. This has been done before or at least a tempted . On pH. I think we should get 3 pH's, 1 hr, 12 hr and 24 hrs mixing/aeration time. It's fact that some salts have VERY high pH when first mixed but most end up in the normal range once equilibrated with air in 24 hrs. There are trick for mixing up seawater where this is not needed but is something most do not do. How to Mix a Batch of Synthetic Seawater in Under Five Minutes http://web.archive.org/web/200112172...io/default.asp We do not need to test for anymore than they have stated, it is enough but to see if we can get Bromide added. Ammonia is present in most mixes, ~.15-.25 ppm. We really do not need NO3-, NO2- or even Cu. But if they do them that is fine. - Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate - Phosphate - Silica - Alkalinity - Calcium - Potassium - Magnesium - Strontium - Molybdenum - Iodine - Copper - Boron - Bromide And Sulfate would also be a good idea but not a must. |
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#74
09/30/2007, 03:14 PM
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Contacting them like we did here is something I really wanted to avoid altogether. I didn't want any type of outside influence to take place, only a "normal" test just as if we had sent a sample of our water including shipping time and all.
With no disrespect to the company doing the testing, I'm sure they will be treating the tests with kid gloves. This partially raises the question, if the testing is going to be done exactly like a sample we sent in from our tanks or not? We'll never know with the test done by them as they are fully aware of what they are testing. We also now can't check the reliability of their testing procedures like I intended to do with known samples being sent in and with some if not all samples being sent to another facility for results. I thought it important to use 2 different services as a way of checking both companies against each other. How can we double check their results if we never have access to the samples we want them to test? Although being "FREE" is good, it does very much taint much of my original intention behind much of the test. It's no longer a BLIND TEST with backup outside testing done for verification, but becomes a vehicle in the form of advertising for them. Carlo Last edited by cayars; 09/30/2007 at 03:20 PM. |
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#75
09/30/2007, 04:07 PM
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Well...it didn’t take as long as I thought before the "EXPERTS" came out of the woodwork and try to screw up a more than generous offer from a qualified lab to make some BASIC comparisons between the different brands of salt. If the same water is used and at the same salinity then I would be interested to see the results. Don’t mess it up with you spewage.....thanks EXPERTS
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