pump for closed loop

[tank watch]

Hey guys, I have been hiding under a rock for a while, just lurking in the background. I am moving along with my 600 gallon display tank.
I want to run a closed loop with an ocean motion 8 way. I would like 4 outlets in the front , across the bottom and 4 outlets plumbed through the rock structure for cleaning the rock inside out. Should I plan on using a dart or step up to the barracuda?

[steve the plumb]

the dart won't be strong enough for a tank that size.I have one on my 300 with an 8 way.Some of the outlets are split with tee's.I would go with a stronger pump.Do you want to go BB and what type of corals do you want to keep.Maybe two 4 ways and 2 x barracuda pumps

[tank watch]

Sandy bottom, 3-4 inches perhaps. Mostly lps, softies, later a few sps.
I was hoping to keep cost down on the number of pumps and OM's, also the cost of electricity. I was hoping for one nice loop system. I intend to use three sea swirl devices fed by a dart from the sump return. Does that sound like enough flow? Three oscilating returns, and the OM 8 way?
Tank has a coast to coast overflow.

[Kannin]

I am setting up a 220 with a closed loop and I started out thinking the Dart would be sufficient. I did a ton of research. I settled on the Barracuda because with the head pressure, I felt I could get close to 3500 gph out of it, for 3 outlets and also because the power usage was less than a pressure rated pump. The dart will save you 70 bucks and a little electricity but the head pressure will dramatically affect the output. I could see 8 returns and all of the bends and head pressure lowering your output on the Dart to under 2000 gph. that's only 250 gph per outlet which is practly nothing. One thing you can do to decrease the affects of head pressure is to use 2 45 elbows to soften each turn instead of using 90's.

[tank watch]

Kannin-are you saying that you have looped the Barracuda with only three outlets? I bet those are pumping!

[steve the plumb]

I have the dart on an 8 way and a dart as a return pump.It is providing me with a decent flow but on a 600 gal tank the dart and an 8 way won't be enough flow.I would say if you want to go that route get the drum with 1 hole and don't split your return lines use 1" pipe and just have a 90 degree fitting pointing.It will give you a good flow.I have the drum with 2 holes (opposite ends) and I find the outlets that I split don't get enough flow.The 2 outlets that are not split do get a nice flow and don't forget my drum has 2 holes so water is being split.With one drum you will get a nice flow but your tank is double mine and if I didn't have a dart as a return pump it wouldn't be enough flow.I plan to add a wave box,that or power heads.I was thinking to buy some vortech pumps but after seeing what they do to acrylic tanks I won't be buying them.

[Kannin]

Yes... 3 outlets but each outlet will have 2 lock line jets on it. It isn't up and running yet. 2 to 3 more weeks.

[Elliott]

Dart is a great pump but too small for your application, I would use a hammerhead for the 8 way on a 600g display and if you are planning on using eductors I'd go with a pressure rated pump like the Pan World 250 or the Iwaki 100 RLT.

Steve: what do vortech's do to acrylic?

[steve the plumb]

If you look at Jnarowes thread he has had crazing on the spots where he had the pumps due to the amount of heat they give off.After seeing the pics he posted and seeing that he has had problems dealing with eco-tech I will not be buying the power heads.I don't want to risk any damage towards the tank.

[tank watch]

so, even though the the OM only uses one or two outlets at a time , 1 inch that is, flow would be insufficient. I assume the OM 8 way is to blame for restriction.

[tank watch]

that was a question by the way. where is the edit button?

[Elliott]

tank watch: yeah, due to the size of the display (600g) you will need a more powerful pump than the DART.

Steve: thanks for the info, I agree, definitely not worth damage to the tank

[tank watch]

Well it looks as though i will need to step up the loop pump. Energy hog it is then...

What about using a dart for a sump return pump and splitting the return to 2 or 3 sea swirls at 1" , in the front upper corners and center.

[Elliott]

What about using a dart for a sump return pump and splitting the return to 2 or 3 sea swirls at 1" , in the front upper corners and center.

that's fine, but don't expect it to contribute too much to the overall flow of 600g. since you want a rather slow flow through your sump you should consider running eductors on the ends, this will create back pressure on the pump (so you need a pressure rated pump) and slow flow in the sump, while forcing water through the eductors creating much more flow in the display, a great combo for a sump return. I originally ran a dart as my return pump for my 300g, didn't do much for flow in the display, though was 50' away!

[steve the plumb]

Tank watch Th OM is fine.1" will give you a nice flow but you have to use the drum with one hole to get a strong flow from each outlet but your tank is 600 gallons its not going to be a strong flow.You are talking double my tank.Now if you want to do 1 dart with the 8 way for a cl just the bottom of the tank and do 2 sea swirls Witch I know the 3/4" models your not supposed to run more than 800 gal through it(I have one)Now I don't know if you mean the sea swirl or the wavy sea.One is not like the other.I would go with the wavy sea plus witch that model you can run up to 3600 GPH.I would run two of those maybe with I don't know what pump.I also don't know your budget.You may want to run modded mj pumps witch will give you a nice flow.I don't know how much wattage you want to use.If you get an iwaki or some 1" inlet pressure rated pump(I forget witch brands,trust me I looked) like that now matter witch brand,A the pressure isn't as much as a dart,B if it comes close in pressure its going to cost $400.,C its going to use 280 plus watts to run it so in the long run it will cost you more than getting 2 or 3 dart pumps.One for the return and two for the cl.Then watch your electricity meter turn round and round real fast when everything is on.I know I see mine scary.

[mrpet]

i use 2 darts on two om 4ways 1" returns really good flow tank is only 375 though i tend to think the cuda would be a better choice as well for you.. jus my 2cents

[46bfinGA]

FWIW I went back and forth on this for quite awhile. Decided to just say the hell with it and sell my OM 4way and buy the Vortech's. Then when JNAROWE's incident happened I decided to just buy the Tunze 6100's with Multicontroller. Yeh there not exactly the best looking in the tank,but its hard to get 8-12000 gph using pumps and OM 4ways without wearing your electric meter out. I figure the powerheads will pay for themselves in the next year or so. I got a pretty good deal on the Tunze,there are deals to be had out there you just got to look around.

[tank watch]

My ultimate goal is to have no powerheads or pumps in the tank at all. I want an ultra clean, sleek look.

Ok. I think I have it.
One barracuda for the closed loop with OM8way, drum with 1 at a time
One barracuda for sump return feeding 3 sea swirls.
Whould that create nice flow?

[gabe3d]

I have a hammerhead on a 4 way with 2 outlets on at a time with 3 locline on each outlet. The flow is pretty strong coming out of each locline outlet. I also have a dart that feeds a WavySea with a locline as a return on top of other things that it feeds as well.

I think if you have only one 1.5'' port open at a time with a barracuda connected to it, you are gonna have a pretty darn strong current coming out of it. If your goal is to just keep rock clean then I would think a Dart would suffice.

I much prefer the coverage of a Wavysea or Seaswirl then an OM. It has a complete coverage of the area it targets and requires less plumbing and pump to cover an area. I think it would be better for you to go with a Wavysea rather than a seaswirl since you will need a decent amount of flow going through it for it to get good reach, since your tank is so large.

[Elliott]

well, as with many things in this hobby, there are several ways to accomplish the same thing, before you go any further I'd call Paul over at oceansmotions and discuss with him, he is a great resource, at least you will get some good dialog on the subject and also know which drum to use, etc., he is a always a great help and spent a lot of time with me back when I was setting everything up.

[tank watch]

I mean to say wavy sea, but I keep typing sea swirl. I want the wavy sea, I want the wavy sea, I want the wavy sea. Just practicing.

The CLoop will use 4 leads inside the rock with a spray bar like structure to support and clean rock. I intend to design a spray section by drilling maybe 1\4" holes in the last piece of hidden pipe. (no holes pointing to the sand!) Maybe with a Barracuda I could use a different drum like the 1+2,2+3,3+4, etc.
The remaining 4 leads will be mounted in the bottom front of the tank, pointing up at the reef and ultimately the overflows.
Perhaps all I need is a wavemaker. Hmmm......

[steve the plumb]

Wave box is nice.I am planning to get one.Those tunze pumps push a lot of water but they are a bit of an eye soar.They do however use a lot less electricity then the dart pumps..The new ones that push over 5800 GPH are pretty big but in a 600 gal tank its not so bad.If you are looking at a 4 ft wide tank you won't notice them as much.

[tank watch]

If I opt for two large Tunze units later on, do the pumps need to be placed in a particular area to create a good wave. Or, can they be hidden in the front corners on the side of the glass (plywood tank by the way) at 45 degree pointing inward and still achieve the rocking motion.

[tank watch]

If I opt for two large Tunze units later on, do the pumps need to be placed in a particular area to create a good wave. Or, can they be hidden in the front corners on the side of the glass (plywood tank by the way) at 45 degree pointing inward and still achieve the rocking motion.?