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  #1  
Old 02/21/2005, 11:17 AM
mufret mufret is offline
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Location: Canton, GA
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A bad buying experience with Terry Lang!

Let me preface this by saying that I’m new to reef keeping and my attempts to get some lighting for my tank has not been a very pleasant experience. The first attempt resulted in nothing getting shipped and having to battle Paypal to get the charges on my credit card reversed. In searching for other options, I came across the following thread Terry Lang posted in the "for sale" section of Reef Central:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=515112

I was hopeful that this transaction would turn out better than the first since I couldn’t help but notice that Mr. Lang was the president of North Coast Marine Keepers, his area’s marine club, and had years of experience. Unfortunately, as the title of this thread stated, that’s NOT how it turned out. I apologize, in advance, for the long read however I feel it necessary to describe how this transaction transpired, so here goes:

We exchanged e-mails and telephone calls and were able to come to an agreement. Initially, everything went smoothly (the items were paid for, shipped and arrived at their destination). I get the box home and since there is no power plug, there’s no way to test the lights. No big deal – off to Home Depot for a plug. The problems started as soon as I went to wire the plug to the harness that came with the set up. The molex plug for the harness was rusted and due to the corrosion, the power wire was no longer attached to the molex plug so there was no way to wire the power plug! I was frustrated at this point but an e-mail to Mr. Lang and he suggested a repair. Unfortunately, after searching multiple locations of Home Depots, Lowe’s, Radio Shacks and hobby shops, I was not able to find the necessary items to repair the harness so I ended up purchasing a new harness and set about changing out the harness (I did this wire by wire to make sure that everything was wired exactly the way it had been. Let me also say that even though I’m new to reef keeping, I’m not new to DIY projects and have all the proper equipment including a multimeter to check wiring). After everything was finally wired up, I went to test the set up and 2 bulbs flashed for a second and then nothing. So again, I e-mailed Mr. Lang and he responded by directing me to the IceCap forum on Reef Central. I then proceeded to follow the instructions on troubleshooting and that led to the replacement of 2 of the bulbs that had apparently been damaged in shipment so off again to the LFS to purchase 2 new bulbs. Not what I was hoping to do just to test the setup but I knew I’d be needing new bulbs so again, frustrating but not a big deal. Installed the new bulbs and again followed all of the procedures spelled out on IceCap’s website to test all of the circuits and everything checked out. Plugged in the ballast and again, NOTHING! This time all 4 bulbs flashed for a second, which according to the IceCap site, meant the ballast was bad. Just to make sure, I then took the ballast to a LFS that had a VHO setup with a 660 installed on one of their display tanks and they tested out the ballast I was sent and it did the same thing on their setup which confirmed that the ballast was not operational. I e-mailed Mr. Lang with this information and he responded that the ballast was under warranty and that I should just send it in.

Again, I wasn’t happy about being shipped a non-working T5 setup but other than to inform Mr. Lang of what was going on and asking questions, I made no demands on him and was following through with getting all of the information together to send in the ballast. As I was researching what would be needed, I discovered that the ballast that Mr. Lang sent me, the URI A4, is not recommended for use with T5 HO bulbs. I called the manufacturer (IceCap) and was told that although the A4 was similar to the IceCap 660, it was not to be used with T5 bulbs. He went on to say that the A4 would fire T5 bulbs but eventually the ballast would blow! Could this be why the ballast is not working? I then called URI and was told basically the same thing. They stated that the A4 was manufactured specifically for the URI VHO bulbs and that it’s missing the circuits that allow the 660 to be used with T5 and PC bulbs. After getting this information, I again e-mailed Mr. Lang and informed him of this and then asked for a refund because the setup that was sent was not in working order and, more importantly, he advertised a T5 set up but sent T5 fixtures and a VHO only ballast. The final response that I received from Mr. Lang stated that the sale was “as is� irregardless of what he advertised (he’s ignored any e-mails or messages left on his voicemail since that response)!

Now maybe it’s because I’m new to this forum and reef keeping and that’s how things are handled here (I sure hope not). I feel like I’ve been very patient and cordial in my dealings with Mr. Lang and wouldn’t think that asking for a refund, given the situation described above, was too much to ask (I was, in fact, even willing to compromise and stated that I would still be willing to purchase the working items in the set up but would like a refund for the ballast and harness). I also want to illustrate that I did not rush to any judgments (that’s why I relayed all of the events). I was very willing to try and make this work! I think it’s especially frustrating when you’re attempting to gain knowledge and put trust in someone that professes to have that knowledge but leads you astray for their own financial benefit. I sure hope Mr. Lang shows more restraint and ethical dealings when it comes to the new members that are joining the club that he presides over!

Finally, after all of this, I’m still without any lighting. I ended up with a T5 retro kit sans a ballast and a non-working although supposedly under warranty VHO ballast. Not a very good purchase!
  #2  
Old 02/21/2005, 12:31 PM
Terry Lang Terry Lang is offline
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The lighting system you purchased was working when removed from the canopy. It was packed and shipped for the agreed amount. You indicated to me that wires came off in shipping and you rewired it. When you plugged in the ballasts to test fire them the lights flashed, this is an indication of the protection circuit activating. I informed you of this and that the ballast was less than 6 months old. Do the wiring correctly and get your ballast repaired (under warranty) you should be fine. Also I will not continue this discussion any further. Good Luck.
  #3  
Old 02/21/2005, 06:11 PM
mufret mufret is offline
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Mr Lang, as I stated above, the URI A4 ballast that you supplied, besides not working, is not designed nor manufactured to be used with T5 HO lighting. This has been clearly stated by both IceCap and URI. As for the wiring, everything has been wired correctly. It has been tested with a working IceCap 660 and, now that the harness and bulbs have been replaced, everything works fine. This is really quite simple and I think that is why you have refused to correspond with me since I asked for a refund. You advertised a working T5 HO lighting solution but that not what was sent out. Also if you would have been considerate enough to discuss this, it more than likely wouldn't have gotten to this point! I'm a reasonable person but I don't think anyone would be happy with the lighting items that I received nor would I have expected to have to immediately send in a ballast for warranty repairs, if the lighting was, as you stated, working when removed.

As for the wiring coming off while it was shipped, I sent you the picture of the molex plug and you stated that you could clearly see that it was rusted. You even went on to comment that you hope the ballast on the other fixture you sold, wasn't messed up because there wasn't any rust on the one you sent me. The shipping may have sped up the wire coming lose but because of the corrosion, it was just a matter of time!

That being said, I will also not continue to post on this since I think I have stated the facts as they occurred and anyone reading this can simply call IceCap and/or URI and quickly learn the same information I uncovered. You portrayed yourself as someone that was knowledgable in this area and either you were misinformed by someone on the uses of this ballast or you purposefully misinformed me. Either way, I didn't receive what you advertised!
  #4  
Old 02/22/2005, 05:36 PM
Terry Lang Terry Lang is offline
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T5 Lighting Lorain Ohio
For sale two T5 lighting sets

Each set consists of 4 ATI 48� bulbs, Sunlight Supply Parabolic reflectors, sockets/standoffs, and Icecap wiring harness, Icecap 660 or URI A4 ballast.
Complete all you have to do is mount in your hood.
Bulbs are year and half old.
Colors are per set: 2 11000K Aquablue, 1 6000K Sun, 1 Actinic 03.

Asking $160 per set

_______________

Copy of ad. Ad states type of ballasts included. Ad states age of lights. Purchaser received what he purchased. Lights were working the day I removed them from canopy. Sorry they are not what you wanted.
  #5  
Old 02/23/2005, 05:17 PM
donahue donahue is offline
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man what an a-hole, i wouldnt be surprised if the ballast wasnt in working order when you sold it. that is probably the reason you decided to sell it in the first place. sorry mufret, some people are born losers.
  #6  
Old 02/23/2005, 05:35 PM
drewdegenhardt drewdegenhardt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terry Lang
The lighting system you purchased was working when removed from the canopy. It was packed and shipped for the agreed amount. You indicated to me that wires came off in shipping and you rewired it. When you plugged in the ballasts to test fire them the lights flashed, this is an indication of the protection circuit activating. I informed you of this and that the ballast was less than 6 months old. Do the wiring correctly and get your ballast repaired (under warranty) you should be fine. Also I will not continue this discussion any further. Good Luck.
As a seller if the buyer is not happy with the product, you should take it back. It is not his responsibility to get something that you sold him fixed. You look like the jerk in this instance not him. If you are so sure it works than take it back and get it fixed yourself. Man I would be ****ed!!
  #7  
Old 02/23/2005, 05:45 PM
Terry Lang Terry Lang is offline
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What is picture worth



Picture of the T5s running that I sold and they were running the day I shipped them!



New lighting

????????
  #8  
Old 02/23/2005, 06:01 PM
JEFFTHEREEFER JEFFTHEREEFER is offline
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Mufret
I am sorry for you experience. I also have found out the hard way just because it is listed or stated in the item for sale that is not always the correct or what your perception of what you are buying. My wife just bought a pair of size 7 shoes off of an online auction, However they were a size 7 kids--The kids part was left out intentionally by the seller and he had also listed no return and no refunds--guess what-Paypal said item was sold as listed even though it was deceptive on the sellers part. The moral to my rambling BUYER BEWARE--Its a real shame that people do things like this to other people. Im guessing Mr Lang is a real stand up church going guy. Mr Lang, Do the right thing. Yeah you have photos of your lighting,alegedly taken the day you removed. But if they worked when you removed them they would work when he received them. If I was in his position I could see something happening to the bulbs in shipping. But something in the circutry in the ballast--unlikely IMO
Mr Lang this hobby is about helping out your fellow reefing friends.
  #9  
Old 02/23/2005, 08:31 PM
donahue donahue is offline
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thats picture is useless.
  #10  
Old 02/23/2005, 10:19 PM
Chris777 Chris777 is offline
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I hope this situation resolves quickly and Mr. Lang does the right thing.
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  #11  
Old 02/24/2005, 01:27 PM
Kreeger1 Kreeger1 is offline
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Any luck yet Mufret?
  #12  
Old 02/24/2005, 11:57 PM
mufret mufret is offline
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I appreciate everyones encouragement and concern however, the only response I've gotten from Mr. Lang since I brought all of this to his attention is the one that you see above. At this point, I can only hope that the ballast is truely under warranty as he's posted. Thanks, Mike
  #13  
Old 02/25/2005, 02:16 PM
NwG NwG is offline
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Well now that the ballat was used with the wrong bulbs... and you posted it here... you may have a hard time getting them to warranty....
Man this sucks.. I would be rather ticked off by this point (As I am with another deal I have going right now!!)
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  #14  
Old 02/25/2005, 08:58 PM
gcrowptc gcrowptc is offline
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??? how did you pay Mr. Lang???? credit or debit card with paypal? check? MO?
  #15  
Old 02/25/2005, 11:29 PM
Terry Lang Terry Lang is offline
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By check
  #16  
Old 02/26/2005, 08:39 PM
mufret mufret is offline
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Unfortunately, I did pay by check but I guess now I know why you wouldn't use Paypal.
  #17  
Old 02/26/2005, 09:04 PM
JEFFTHEREEFER JEFFTHEREEFER is offline
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Mufret
Did you request one ballast over the other??

Each set consists of 4 ATI 48� bulbs, Sunlight Supply Parabolic reflectors, sockets/standoffs, and Icecap wiring harness, Icecap 660 or URI A4 ballast.
Complete all you have to do is mount in your hood.
Bulbs are year and half old.
Colors are per set: 2 11000K Aquablue, 1 6000K Sun, 1 Actinic 03.
  #18  
Old 02/27/2005, 02:08 AM
beemer beemer is offline
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mufret,
Hey sorry to hear about the bad experience. For what its worth you can get a Fulham Workhorse 7 ballast or two (I think one will work) to run your setup for $40 per ballast. good luck I hope he does the right thing
Jerod
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  #19  
Old 02/28/2005, 07:07 AM
mufret mufret is offline
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JEFFTHEREEFER - I did not request one ballast over the other. I did, however, specifically ask about the differences in them and was told that they were identical with the only difference being the A4 was made for URI. I, unfortunately, was going on his word.

Beemer - I'll look into those. Thanks
  #20  
Old 02/28/2005, 10:41 AM
JEFFTHEREEFER JEFFTHEREEFER is offline
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Well there you go then--They are not identical the A4 does not have the same circuitry that the 660 does. But I can also see that due the fact he an A$$*)*# you wont get anywere this way. I wonder if he treats his Club memebers that he is the President of this way--Or for the other matter why he didnt sell this to someone in his club if he is such a STAND UP GREAT GUY???????????
  #21  
Old 02/28/2005, 11:30 AM
unoit unoit is offline
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Yeah Id assume he treats his members this way. I was told at the last meeting he charged the club members $20.00 each for a fragging lesson which involved his glaxia which he raised as a frag and a branching frogspawn. He then charged the club $ 40.00 each for the corals that he fragged. What a good deal for himself on that one. Membership dues are $ 10.00 and he's taken in 24 members to date. He run the meetings out of a building owned by the park system, more than likely free or next to nothing. This group doesnt look like a non profit club from the looks of things.
The refreshments at the meeting I was told was a bag of pretzels and 4 liters of soda. What a scam is the silent auction on the used to be raffle you know $ 5.00 for 5 tickets,you could win a coral for $ 5.00 or less, now you have to bid on a piece of paper what your willing to pay for that coral. They had a acro frag that went for $ 14.00 the same on that sells at his sponser shop for $ 10.00. This is only what Ive been told by a fellow reefer in his area. It gave me a idea of the intentions of this ahole. I was told this club was started for the purpose of Mr Lang to feed his ego with a title and a chance to make money. Its funny since the start of this club Mr. Lang has bought MH's,Kalk reactor does this make you wonder where he's getting the funds to pay with for this from....HHMMMMMMMM...I was also told that he's attempted to sell a Ice Cap 660 for $ 65.00 that needs a $ 35.00 repair. The truth is it will probably cost alot more then that. Mr Lang should get that ballast fixed at his own cost and ship it out to mufret at no charge. Thats what needs to be done!!!! Mr. Lang I have never met you and I dont care to. Do us a favor a crawl back under the rock you came out from. The president of NCMK what a joke you are.
  #22  
Old 02/28/2005, 11:50 AM
JEFFTHEREEFER JEFFTHEREEFER is offline
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Wow It Appears Mr. Lang Has a FAN CLUB lol----Well at least he is consitant
  #23  
Old 02/28/2005, 03:42 PM
Kreeger1 Kreeger1 is offline
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It was only a matter of time till his true colors came out
  #24  
Old 03/02/2005, 12:50 AM
HoobaStank HoobaStank is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mufret
I couldn?t help but notice that Mr. Lang was the president of North Coast Marine Keepers, his area?s marine club, and had years of experience. ------------------------------------- I sure hope Mr. Lang shows more restraint and ethical dealings when it comes to the new members that are joining the club that he presides over!
It's not like Terry was voted president by a local group of members. Most everyone had enough contact with him to find out just what type of guy he is long before the club existed. He decided he would start his own club this way he could make himself president and boost his allready overly inflated ego even more. Generally he is rude and incosiderate of most everyone and whatever you do DO NOT make a suggestion or ask any questions that may reveal his hidden agenda to the few members that arent his family, 2 friends, or the owner of the store that sponsors the "club".

Off subject but worth mentioning
The sposor's store is ran out of the guys house and is trying hard to undercut the other GOOD LFS by running from an area I am sure it is not zoned for commercial walk-in business. Your such good buddies with him Terry why don't you tell him to play on a level (legal) playing field? I doubt it's putting a strain on the other shops as prices don't seem any better, and IME service is worse. I would be interesting however to see if his head could be kept above (salt)water if he was paying bills like I'm sure the others are. Maybe your getting a cut on sales also or is it just for the advertising you do here and other forums?

Quote:
Originally posted by drewdegenhardt
As a seller if the buyer is not happy with the product, you should take it back.
Could anyone make it more simple for you Terry? I know that admitting you sold the guy not only crap, but equipment that should NOT have been wired togther would damage your stellar self image but is it really that hard to put yourself in mufret's shoes. Icecap and URI have stated over and over that this ballast should NOT be used for T5's. Are you claiming you didn't know that?


Quote:
Originally posted by JEFFTHEREEFER
Mr Lang, Do the right thing. Yeah you have photos of your lighting,alegedly taken the day you removed. But if they worked when you removed them they would work when he received them.
Exactly! I'm pretty sure murfet would be willing to pay the shipping at this point just to get out from under the steaming pile of feces you so kindly dumped upon him. According to you it worked fine, and the bulbs flashing was just the "protection circuit activating" so why not take it back? Is it suddenly not worth the money you took from the guy for it?

Quote:
Originally posted by donahue
thats picture is useless.
Terry knows that. His ego is so big I am pretty sure it often gets in the way of rational thought. I'm sure he thought if he posted nothing other than a picture of his tank with the lights on the rest of the world would bow down to his superior intelligence and kiss his feet.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chris777
I hope this situation resolves quickly and Mr. Lang does the right thing.
A little Deja vu Terry? I doubt this put a dent in your self image, but it sure made my day a whole lot better. When so many people know what kind of person you are maybe you should try harder not to step in on other peoples business?

Quote:
Originally posted by mufret
Unfortunately, I did pay by check but I guess now I know why you wouldn't use Paypal.
I find that pretty interesting. It seems in this thread Mr.Lang would only accept paypal. Does this show intent to screw mufret? I belive it does!

Quote:
Originally posted by unoit
----------I was told this club was started for the purpose of Mr Lang to feed his ego with a title and a chance to make money.-----------Do us a favor a crawl back under the rock you came out from. The president of NCMK what a joke you are.
LOL! This post is so truthful it is hard to add much of anything to it! I just felt the few key points above deserved repeating

The 660 ballast he is trying to sell was fried on his tank. Do a search of his post history you will see when he was bragging on his inovative T5 setup he was proud to announce it used 2 Icecap 660's.He knew that only the 660's should be used with T5's but he tossed the URI on it as a band aid until he could get his MH's and ditch the URI setup on someone far away without using paypal.

Quote:
Originally posted by eriksmacks
It was only a matter of time till his true colors came out
It must depend on what day of the month you have an encounter with Terry. It took all of about 5 minutes of converstion with me to see how egotistical, and pompous he really is!

Quote:
Originally posted by unoit
----------I was told this club was started for the purpose of Mr Lang to feed his ego with a title and a chance to make money.-----------Do us a favor a crawl back under the rock you came out from. The president of NCMK what a joke you are.
Again I have nothing to add to this. I thought maybe a threepeat would help it sink in with anyone thinking of doing ANY business with Mr.Lang.

I think it is pretty funny that Mr.Lang's only posts on RC since this thread has been spamming other local clubs begging for someone to join him on his new forum. The spamming is really nothing new he does it every month hoping to gain a few new members he can rule over and put some more money in his pocket.
  #25  
Old 03/02/2005, 12:55 AM
HoobaStank HoobaStank is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by unoit
Do us a favor a crawl back under the rock you came out from. The president of NCMK what a joke you are.
OK I couldnt resist just one more
 

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