Question

[Cosper]

I am starting to notice air bubbles attached to the rock surfaces... and am also starting to devolup hair algea. Neither one of these has every really been an issue before. Nothing has changed to cause this. My skimmer kicks out some micro bubbles, but nothing major and nothing more than it always has. Should I add some flow? Only think I could dream up.

[Travis L. Stevens]

The bubbles on the rock are caused by the live rock going through the denitrification process. The end result of the cycle is nitrates breaking down to nitrogen gas. This is fine. Your hair algae growing may also be due to nitrates. They too will give off nitrogen gas as they consume light, phosphates, nitrates, CO2, and a slew of other chemicals. I wouldn't worry about the bubbly rocks but start doing what you can now to get the hair algae under control.

What are your current nitrates?

[reelheel]

In my experience, more flow is almost always a great improvement. The bubbles on the rocks makes me think that you may be experiencing a cyanobacterial bloom...have you seen any red velvet-like slime in patches?
It is very common for the bacterial blooms and hair algae to become abundant at the same time, as they are both products of excess nutrients in the system.
I try to keep a lot of flow, really flush all the detritus that has accumulated on my rocks, run an effective skimmer "wet", and change out some water with new salt water.
Maybe feed a little less as well, and over time the problems should subside.
Hope this helped...

[Cosper]

Cyano has been a HUGE problem with this tank! The back glass is covered.. its in the substrate, on the rock etc.

What confuses me.. is nitrATES are 0. (undetectable anyway). Amm, is never detectable.. I run a good skimmer for filtration, I also have recently incorperated about a 5gal rubbermaid sump/ refrigum with a little macro.

Flow is done by my return (a maxijet 1200), and a pair of aqua clear power heads. Plus the skimmer return. (30gal L tank)

[reelheel]

I'd be willing to bet that you've got detritus accumulated in your rock and/or on your substrate, and I'd try my best to remove it.
You could do any/all of the following:
Blast the rocks with at least a turkey baster...powerhead is better.
Run your skimmer wet to help remove the "chunks" of organics
I'd add a small hang-on filter or canister filter with filter floss to help catch the particles too.
You could even remove the rocks one by one and dunk/swish them vigorously in a bucket of tank water to clean them up.
Either way I'd add a little flow, and make VERY sure I had a really effective skimmer - I'm not sure which "good" skimmer you have.
Then watch what you feed and I think you'll be well on your way.

[dmirza]

the reason nitrates are undetectable is because the algae is using it up as soon as it is created.

[Cosper]

My skimmer is a CoralLife Super Skimmer 65. I like it pretty well, and have been wet skimming for a few weeks now.

When I set the tank up.. my knowlege was SO limited. I ran a SeaClone skimmer, and thought that was great. Started the tank with non cured LR and had fish less than a week later. Coral less than a month later.

Im like you and think flow is the answer. That is what I wanted and expected to hear. Flow is easy to enhance.

On another note... This setup will have to be restarted a few months from now. I am moving it. My moving plans:

-Same size display tank.

-New (taller) stand so that the skimmer can be hidden in the sump, and the sump itself can be larger with compartments for pump, macro, LR etc.

-Close loop. The loop will have two traditional outlets that shoot out into the tank. Then.. there will be an aditional two bulkheads on the bottom of the tank that flow into a PVC stand for my LR. The stand will have say 10-20 small holes drilled into it so that it acts as a spray bar and blows detirus from the bottom of the tank and LR.

- Will be switching from crushed coral to live sand.. (thank god)

Anybody care to comment on that closed loop feel free... Its an idea that Im still kicking around. I also still need help deciding on what pump size to go with.

Thanks all, in advance

[Cosper]

Originally posted by dmirza
the reason nitrates are undetectable is because the algae is using it up as soon as it is created.

that makes a lot of sense. never thought of it that way

[Travis L. Stevens]

I would also check your Phosphates for giggles as well. Phosphates and Nitates test like each other. If you have algae (especially large amount) phosphates and nitrates are most likely being consumed at the rate that they are being made. Therefore if the phosphate test shows up with any marginal amount, then you can bet there is a water quality issue. I would check your water source for contamination, full RO/DI resins, and feeding amount. These all might be reasons for algae.

Im glad that you alerted us to the Cyano problem. It sounds like the tank is somewhat new. Was it set up within the last 6 months?

All in all, all the information posted above is good information. doing some if not all of these things will help drastically. And as always, patience is the key.

[Cosper]

The tank is new.. about 4months old. Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a phosphate kit considering thats the only thing that I havent tested.

Also.. Im not sure if this make a difference or not, I just thought of this. My Calcium levels are too high. 7-800. I wasnt aware that the salt mix I used raised calcium by itself, and was dosing calcium without a kit (before I understood anything about water chemistry and the relationship between alk and calcium and why thats important etc etc)... anyway.. thats why my calcium is sky high. I guess that could cause some alg.

Agian.. any thoughts are appreciated.

[reefshadow]

If your calcium is that high, your alk is most likely very low. It's kind of a seesaw effect. Have you checked your alk lately? I think from experience that algaes tend to do better in a low alk environment. You are probably seeing swings in your ph too because of this.

If you do up your alk, do it slooowly b/c w/ a ca. that high, you are likely to get a precip event if you bring the alk up too fast. You may want to do a few water changes to bring things more into equilibrium. Seems to me that most salt mixes are high in alk and only moderate in ca. anyway.

More flow definately does help too.

Hth!

[reefshadow]

What salt mix are you using? I've never come across one w/ ca. that high before! What test kit did you use?

[jjmcat]

As for the phosphates I would get some rowas and put it in your filter.This will help you untill you get all params under control.

[Cosper]

I use Oceanic salt mix..the calcium isnt that high naturally, I was adding calcium (blind)..and before I got around too testing got everything out of wack. Alk is actually right on. I forget the readings but it was right in the middle of the recomended range.

I'll do some more testing with that today, but Im pretty sure of the results. Ive done countless tests with two different kits from each.

[afishyonados]

The sediment that is accumulating on the rock is physically breaking the rock down. Bacteria that break down the dust will aggressivly break down any rock it sits on! This may release phosphates that would otherwise be non-existant.
Also, if your lights are producing too much red spectrum, which encourages the growth of cyano, this will give you the bubble effect. If I don't miss my guess, you see more bubbles/algae at the end of the day?
If your calcium is truly that high, it is almost impossible for your KH to be anywhere near the desired range. They work off of each other, and will pull each other out of solution if above acceptable parameters. Try a different KH test kit.
Maybe do partial water changes to bring down the calcium gradually.

[Cosper]

I have tried just about every kit imaginable for alk. I may order a different calcium test today.

Im also going to start hitting the WC's this weekend. Hopefully that will iron things out over time.

[afishyonados]

What kind of lights? How old are they? What is your photoperiod? What is your tank temperature?

[Cosper]

Maybe at this point.. I need more help making/ keeping the new setup right. As said earlier in the thread.. the system will be completely tore down and moved soon. I am thinking of starting out with all new rock even- just to get a fresh start.

[Cosper]

Lights are on for around 9hrs a day. It is a 196 PC light. Only two or three weeks old.

[afishyonados]

Part of making or keeping the new set-up right may involve understanding why the old one is doing what it is. This is not an attack. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. Don't get discouraged.

[afishyonados]

If some of youe PC's are 10k, they could be encouraging the problem. I suggest swapping them for smart lamps. This may be too much blue for your enjoyment, but it may discourage the unwanted growth.

[Cosper]

Originally posted by afishyonados
Part of making or keeping the new set-up right may involve understanding why the old one is doing what it is. This is not an attack. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. Don't get discouraged.

Understandable.. I think a LARGE part of my problem is the substrate Im using. I think live sand would be a much better route than crushed coral. When I started.. I used UNcured LR, which couldent have helped.

I really think.. that using the other substrate, with better flow, rock and skimming from the beginning will be the difference. I'll see I guess.

Also- its not that this tank is "failing"... just a few minor issues. Fish are coral are doing great. That brings me to another thought: I am fish crazy.. I love them, and my tank is over stocked with them. (10 total) I think a larger system (display and sump) will help as well, to dilute the waste from these fish.

[afishyonados]

If your crushed coral is a calcite base, I couldn't agree more with it's removal. If it is aragonite based, I can't see where the problem is. Live sand is a great concept, but after a while even inert sand can become live! Maybe think about blending in some finer grain aragonite or oolite sand with your existing bed, (if it's not calcite!).
Someone may have mentioned this, but if you are feeding frozen foods without rinsing them, that alone could be the source of phosphates and the problems discussed now.

[afishyonados]

Oh yeah, check your prepared foods for fish meal. If it is in the first 4 ingredients, it can be a significant source of phos also!

[Cosper]

Is it possible... that if eneough macro was added to the sump/ fuge.. there wouldent be any chance for the other alg to live in the display tank?