Culturing your own Phytoplankton

[bunsenburner]

Just to clarify, When using the settle technique to reduce nutrient level before adding to the tank I would be cautious to resuspend in fresh water rather use nutrirnt free saltwater to avoid lysis by osmotic shock.

I am no expert in phytoplankton growth so don't put too much weight on my ideas. I really don't know but this oppinion is based on experince growing bacteria.


So far when I pelleted phytoplanton (probably all nano by now since it was a DTs start?) at around 1500 g I notice little difference in growth rate when compared to a similar innoculant from a non spun culture. Based on this crude analysis spinning doesn't seem to bad, at least for my home application.

On a large scale it seems like a device I once used called a sharpels might work. This is cool type of centrifuge where media continuously flows up a tall spinning column and the object of interest is forced to the side of the spinning column. Clear spent media exits the top of the device. Again I don't know in reality how well this would work.

[Anthony Calfo]

I'm leaving in hours (plane) to visit some wonderful hobbyists/stores/clubs in Arkansas and St. Louis...

I will be very disappointed (ahem... vendors) if jabs and inflammatory remarks turn this otherwise fab thread into a flame-fest. You WILL lose some of my respect for you.

My apologies to all, at large... but y'all haven't been privy to the flurry of ems, PMs I've got in the last week from some participating vendors (ahem, again) here whom I am sure disagree with each other, and suspect want to tear each other to shreds

I'm not kidding, and I won't be shy to say it... this forum is MY sandbox. If you boys don't play nice, you will ruin a good thing (this thread) and lose some respect... perhaps a 'lil business in the process. Pot shots and shilling your businesses are not welcome.

We are only interested in useful information exchanges.

Randy... thank you for changing your commercial links as requested.

Dennis... thank you for not going ballistic. At least not yet

kindly,

Anthony... who really hopes to see this thread standing strong when I return

[bunsenburner]

This thread was really going and I miss reading people thoughts. Anybody know a good place to get a cheap 50 um mesh to harvest rotis and pods? The kind folks at Reeds donated both Roti and Pod cultures to our club to help get AC out for a talk. Since I already had pods going I figured I'd give growing the pods a shot.

Just to give credit to DT's. They also donated a generous amount of phyto and oyster eggs. Picked some of both of these up as well.

Thanks to both companies. These donations were some of the hottest items.

[shanekennedy]

try http://filterbag.com

[Fredfish]

Hm... Interesting site. Gotta order 10 at a go though.

Fred

[Triterium]

I like the one from www.florida-aqua-farms.com

[bunsenburner]

Thanks for the filtration links. I ended up going with the one from florida aqua farms since it looked like it was high quality. Split the pods to keep them going until it arrives. Probably not all that exciting to anybody but me, but I'm having fun and like to share my stories....

[Fredfish]

Keep sharing bunsenburner.

I need to get some 100um mesh for my brine cultures. I was screening some brine when I happened to notice that a good number seem to be going through my LFS brine shrimp net.

I am still considering options on phyto for my (not yet set up) pod cultures. From what I have been able to find out, most pods prefer larger size foods.

I have exchanged a few emails with Dr. Adelaide Rhodes, a pod researcher, who suggested foods in the 5-10 micron size. She also runs Seapods.com so I figure she knows what she is doing.

Anyway, nano and tet are both very small in size, well below the 5-10 microns I want, so I was looking at the Reed Mariculture phytofeast product to give me a range of sizes.

The only other alternative I can see is to culture nano and one other larger phyto like chaetoceros (sp?) myself.

If I didn't have to drive 6 hrs. round trip to get the phytofeast it would be an easier decision.

I am still also concerned about shelf life. I wonder how much of its reserves the phyto will have used after two months in the fridge.

I know a number of other breeders with larger setups have pretty much given up on culturing because of inconsistencies in home setups. Most of these guys are raising rotifers which do well on nano and tet paste.

Fred.

Fred

[GreshamH]

Are you sure Adalaide runs see pods? IIRC her company is Essential Live Feeds ( http://www.essentiallivefeeds.com/ ).

[Fredfish]

Oops, oceanpods.com and essentially...

Dang, too many pod thingy websites.

Either way, she has been quite helpful.

Fred

[Anthony Calfo]

and she (Adelaide Rhodes) is an fabulous presenter! I was truly delighted and surprised the first time I saw her lecture. A head's up to any hobby clubs looking for speaker suggestions.

[bunsenburner]

Thanks Fredfish,
Not too much new. Spli the pod culture into 3 500 mL container last week. Seem to have lost one. Took the 2 remaining and scaled up the pod culture into a half full 5 gallon. Hopefully they'll take off.

The club will have to keep Adelaide Rhodes in mind for future presentations. There are a number who are interested in raising fish and a few who currently culture phtyo.

[Bugger]

Does anybody know where to buy other species other then nan and tet.

[moumda]

Bugger, try florida aqua farms.

[Atticus]

I can't wait for the "Secret" cell seperation techniques to go public. I am getting really tired of duct taping 2 liters bottles of home grown phyto to the rims of my truck tires as I drive to work...

[Roll221]

Great thread, I read the entire thing hoping to get this question answered. If in fact I feed home grown phyto to my tank, does it have any direct benefit to SPS coral?

Ed

[Anthony Calfo]

the current belief is that not many of the commonly kept so-called SPS corals directly consume phytoplankton. But... the regular feeding of phyto supports some microcrustaceans/zooplankton that DO feed "SPS" corals.

I would not feed phyto heavily in an Acro/Monti dominated tank... but I would feed some small amount regularly FWIW.

BTW... when abused (excess phyto fed) in such "SPS" tanks, you may see mucousal net feeding calcareous tubeworms or sponges flare in number. This can be somewhat to very irritating to the SPS corals to the point of being encroached (calcareous worms pushing back coral tissue... spreading mucus nets excessively, etc.)

[purplehaze]

Seafarm:
So your "Live" product is alive i.e. you can start a culture from it, the cells can reproduce. Or are you just using the word “Live� as a trade mark meaning that it came from live algae. Your website changed with the new product, now your verbiage is very interesting suggesting that you are spinning your words to the point of confusing people into thinking it is alive.
Can you explain your odor inhibitor a bit and why you are not labeling your aquaculture products as containing an odor inhibitor and your aquarium products. People here hate snake oil and I would hate to see your products labeled as such because you are hiding things put in your product. Full disclosure is important for the hobby. When you sell a feed ingredient you’re a liable for labeling the contents of your product. Your aquaculture products would be considered a feed ingredient.

[Anthony Calfo]

Good fair/questions... but I'm putting everyone on alert:

I really just want to see respectful questions and answers.

If anyone wants a dirtier fight... go elsewhere. You're guests in my forum while your here.

And for anyone confused by this or other posts of mine to this nature in this forum, there has been a lot of behind the scenes banter between opposing parties in (me) trying to keep this otherwise fabulous and useful thread open and pleasant.

I believe many readers come to my forum in part because of the constructive atmosphere.

I intend to keep it that way.

Play ball...

[Fredfish]

Purple haze, the live product is live. Can't help you with the odor inhibitor, though I expect that the concentrated stuff will have a strong algae smell.

Fred.

[purplehaze]

Anthony,

Thanks for your comment, I am only looking for clarification..There is no intention of desrespect.

Fredfish,

Why do you say it´s really alive? Cause if not, it´s pretty misleading to use the term "live".

[Anthony Calfo]

I was also under the impression that it was not live as in 'living'/culturable.

(and no worries purplehaze... I was making a pre-emptive statement for all parties )

[shanekennedy]

the seafarm website states the following for their phyto-feast-live product:

Is Phyto-Feastâ„¢ Really Alive?

YES! All four species of marine microalgae are alive and will stay alive for weeks or months, depending on the species and storage conditions. Phyto-Feastâ„¢ has been induced to become "quiescent", having minimal outward signs of life. This allows the algae to stay alive in a state of "suspended animation" without depleting their reserves and nutritional value.

Claims:

1. All the microalgae that goes into Phyto-Feastâ„¢ are grown at our farm in California and are harvested live and packed and shipped "farm fresh" every week.
2. Once harvested the algae are induced to become "quiescent" in "suspended animation." At the time of bottling 95% or more of the algae are alive.
3. In this quiescent state metabolic activity and respiration are reduced to minimal levels and the nutritional value of the algae and the integrity of the cell membranes are preserved. The process is similar to cryopreservation where alga can be frozen live for years and remain viable.
4. Not all of our algae species are equally hardy and after a few weeks some of the more delicate cells begin to expire. However some cells will remain viable for two months or more.
5. Because of the unique quiescence process that is applied to the algae, the cells remain intact and they retain their full nutritional value long after they have ceased metabolic activity. Properly stored, a bottle of Phyto-Feastâ„¢ will provide the same value at two-plus months that it did on the first day.

for their instant algae product they say:

Instant Algae© is a non-viable algae product, meaning that it cannot be used to start a culture. However very few aquaculture applications need microalgae that reproduces, and there are several advantages to having a non-viable product

[Anthony Calfo]

I think its the "induced" and "preserved" wording for the Phyto-Feast that has some folks (myself included) a bit confused.

Point blank... can it be cultured? Has anyone tried this?

I'm certainly not reticent at all to give it a try... just bogged down with travel and work for at least some weeks/months longer. If no one else tries it first... I'll buy some and give it a shot around Christmas (hopefully) Of course... we really need more thana few folks to do it to get a decent consensus. Anyone game? Be sure to buy it randomly from an LFS if so.

[purplehaze]

Quote from Reed´s site:

Is Live Algae Better? Reef organisms require a phytoplankton (microalgae) feed that provides all the nutrition necessary for full health, vitality, and vibrancy. To ensure maximum nutritional value you must first start with high quality algae, then make sure the cells remain intact so the nutrients don't leak into the water. Phytoplankton are very small and any breach of the cell membrane will release the cell’s valuable contents. Intact phytoplankton are able to deliver their nutrients to your animals rather than dispersing them into the water

Live Algae Disadvantages - Live phytoplankton need a lot of light and nutrients to stay alive. When algae are stored in the dark, in media without nutrients, they must consume their own proteins, lipids and carbohydrates to stay alive. Depending on the level of metabolic activity, the algae's nutritional value can fall rapidly as the cells starve. Live phytoplankton also respire, consuming oxygen in the dark. Live and biologically active microalgae sealed up in the dark can quickly consume all available oxygen and become anaerobic. When this happens the algae will start to die from a lack of oxygen. At the same time anaerobic bacteria begin to grow, rapidly resulting in the classical smell of decomposition - hydrogen sulfide (smells like rotten eggs).

Summary - Reef organisms are not "smart" enough to differentiate between algae and dead algae, so it's up to you to provide them with the best quality feeds. "Live" algae ensures that the nutrients inside the cells will be available to your to your animals, but does not ensure that there will be any remaining nutrients in the cells. The best quality algae will be harvested at "peak" nutritional profile, then put into hibernation (quiescence) to keep that peak profile.

Suspended Animation / Hibernation (Quiescence)

The best process for obtaining the benefits of live algae without the disadvantages is to place the live microalgal cells in a state of suspended animation (also called quiescence or hibernation). This process reduces the metabolic activity of the live cells to minimal levels, allowing long term storage without the depletion of oxygen or the loss of nutritional value. A commonly used form of suspended animation is cryopreservation in which algal cells are frozen alive and intact and can be revived later.

This all seems like voodoo magic word games. The way it reads it sounds like Reed is using a cyropreservative to preserve the algae or some preservative. You can’t centrifuge the algae, add something to it....“to place the live micro algal cells in a state of suspended animation (also called quiescence or hibernation).� without using a preservative, natural or artificially. Even if you are using Vit. E or some very natural product you are using a preservative. You may or may not be using something like BHT but its the same thing, a preservative, if your putting anything at all in the algae to preserve it natural or unnatural. One way or another is very suspect that you don’t label it. I just feel like they are trying to use word games to confuse people in to thinking the product is alive. When the product was first introduced it was “alive� and now they use terms like “live,� quiescence, suspended animation. These all lead one to believe that they are preserved cells. Why not just come out and say they are viable or non viable; fresh or preserved (naturally or unnaturally). Its just seems like they are intentional confusing people. To say that your products don’t contain preservatives is a bit unlikely when you are adding something to mask the smell and not labeling what that is. Many people use the products to produce animals for their livelihood and not to label what is in the product is very very suspect and dishonest.

Again no disrespect, but its hard to get a handle on reality sometimes. Many of us have bought enough snake oil to last a life