Lab testing Subcription service! - Page 5

HowardW · #**101** 09/27/2007, 09:55 AM

<<< 3. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix

4. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula >>>

No need to test both of these as they are the same salt, the only difference being the Marinemix contains a de-chlorinator and the Bioassay does not.

cayars · #**102** 09/27/2007, 10:56 AM

But are they really the same?

From website:
Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is ideal for use with municipal tapwater containing chlorine/chloramies since it contains sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is one of the few salts available that has the blending capability to eliminate potentially harmful chlorine/chloramines. Crystal Sea™ Bioassay Laboratory Formula does not contain sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). This formula is ideally suited for laboratory research and reef systems which pre-process water with R/O (reverse osmosis) and D/I (de-ionization). Other than the inclusion or exclusion of sodium thiosulfate, both products are the finest quality marinemixes available on the market.

So are they really the same or do we just assume the only difference is the sodium thiosulfate? It never says they are the same only "finest quality...".

One can surely go if testing needs to be more limited.

Confirmed $ contributors thus far:
cayars
Antman
Boomer
HowardW

Carlo

Boomer · #**103** 09/27/2007, 11:39 AM

If we look at past data they are not the same. There is a 3 gal difference between the two in a 50 gal bag. The dechlor added would not yield such a difference. And the data sheets show a difference also in a number of ions.

Carlo forget the ORP you will be pulling your hair out

HowardW · #**104** 09/27/2007, 11:53 AM

Hmmmm.....the way they have it worded on their website below it leads one to believe they are the same with the Marinemix containing a de-chlorinator.

IIRC, I asked someone at ME awhile back and they said they were pretty much the same salt. Maybe I will call and ask again.

<<< Q: What is the difference between Crystal Sea Marinemix and Crystal Bioassay Laboratory Formula?

A:
Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is ideal for use with municipal tapwater containing chlorine/chloramies since it contains sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is one of the few salts available that has the blending capability to eliminate potentially harmful chlorine/chloramines. Crystal Sea™ Bioassay Laboratory Formula does not contain sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). This formula is ideally suited for laboratory research and reef systems which pre-process water with R/O (reverse osmosis) and D/I (de-ionization). Other than the inclusion or exclusion of sodium thiosulfate, both products are the finest quality marinemixes available on the market. >>>

cayars · #**105** 09/27/2007, 12:34 PM

Pretty much is like saying similar. One could say IO and RC are pretty much the same too.

Depends what one considers "pretty much"

Carlo

cayars · #**106** 09/27/2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boomer
If we look at past data they are not the same. There is a 3 gal difference between the two in a 50 gal bag. The dechlor added would not yield such a difference. And the data sheets show a difference also in a number of ions.

Carlo forget the ORP you will be pulling your hair out

Agree ORP might be a real pain but I can do it easily and log it so I'll give it a try. It may or may not show anything useful.

I took a look at the MEI site but couldn't find the data sheets on them. My old link is now broken. Do you have a new link or the actual data sheets Boomer?

Thanks,
Carlo

HowardW · #**107** 09/27/2007, 01:01 PM

Ok, just called ME and they confirmed the Marinemix and Bioassay are 100% exactly the same salt with the Marinemix also containing a de-chlorinator.

Boomer · #**108** 09/27/2007, 01:09 PM

Go to our "Reef Chemistry Articles",and scroll way down the list and you will see salt assays, "Inland Salt Study" If you look at these two salts you will clearly see they are not the same but "similar".

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605

Boomer · #**109** 09/27/2007, 01:21 PM

Howard I know they say that but I don't buy it

More than likely we will have to drop one form the list just like SeaChem. We would need like ~ $400 do do them all.

Some things to look at.

"We" are going to have to have bags of these salts, 1 of ea bag. "We" can not afford to send them all these bags full. There will have to be a means where dry salt mixes samples are sent to then for assay, after "we" make sure the dry mix is thoroughly tumbles/mixed before the dry mix is sent out.. "We" should not be playing with them, although "we" could play with the remainder of the bags and add some stuff to the said final data sheet.

cayars · #**110** 09/27/2007, 01:44 PM

Agree Boomer.

I knew "both" were in one of the studies as I have the numbers but couldn't remember which study it was in.

I'm surprised more people aren't interested in jumping in for this.

Carlo

Boomer · #**111** 09/27/2007, 01:52 PM

So far I'm shocked they are not more interested. Start a new thread to see if we get more hits.

Something like...............

New salt study assay..........

should get crap loads of hits and dump it on two more of the forums here on RC

cayars · #**112** 09/27/2007, 05:53 PM

Yep was what I was thinking also. I'll do it later tonight and put a pointer here. Get this thread back on target.

Carlo

Dr Begalke · #**113** 09/27/2007, 09:04 PM

I'd chip in for the testing of different salt mixes, I personally would like to test 50/50 oceanic/IO.

Dr Begalke · #**114** 09/27/2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sabbath
Has anyone tried this service? It looks appealing to me in that it test for more more things for less money. http://www.natureef.com/

I am not sure how they can claim to test pH, but OK...

cayars · #**115** 09/27/2007, 09:24 PM

Look at the results Natureef.com is giving. It appears they may be using common test kits.

Carlo

DrBegalke · #**116** 09/27/2007, 09:34 PM

New thread on the reef discussion forum regarding testing of salt mixes:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1216536

Billybeau1 · #**117** 09/28/2007, 01:37 AM

You guys got way too much time on your hands.

cayars · #**118** 09/28/2007, 07:10 AM

Nah, you just make time for things that are important or intrigue you.

Carlo

Billybeau1 · #**119** 09/28/2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cayars
Nah, only Oceanic tests that high.

Got both salts on the list.

Carlo

Not true.

I tested Coralife at around 560, Kent at around 540 and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said.

HowardW · #**120** 09/28/2007, 01:04 PM

<<< and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said. >>>

BB, A gentlemans bet that the water testing service comes in well below 500ppm calcium on the Seachem Reef Salt?

Billybeau1 · #**121** 09/28/2007, 01:27 PM

I'll take that bet.

Make sure you are talking about their reef salt and not their marine salt.

cayars · #**122** 09/28/2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billybeau1
Not true.

I tested Coralife at around 560, Kent at around 540 and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said.

Me thinks you need a new test kit or refractomer/salinity monitor (or calibration).

None of those will come close to 500. The only salt I've ever tested over 500 is Oceanic.

Any side bets?

Carlo

PS you seem about 100 ppm high to me on each test number.

HowardW · #**123** 09/28/2007, 05:33 PM

<<< Howard I know they say that but I don't buy it >>>

Boomer, I don't dispute what you say, however what motivation would Marine Enterprises have for saying their two salt formulas are exactly the same (except for the de-chlor added to Marinemix) if they were in fact different blends?

cayars · #**124** 09/28/2007, 06:12 PM

HowardW, check out the following study. Both salts are there and slightly different.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1

Carlo

USC-fan · #**125** 09/28/2007, 08:28 PM

Anyone who signs up for this please request SG testing. I just can't understand why they don't test for that.