Lab testing Subcription service! - Page 4

Antman · #76 09/15/2007, 05:35 PM

cant wait to see how my water tests out
I am alwany second guessing when I test

Boomer · #77 09/17/2007, 11:57 AM

billweld

I use a company called Natureef.

I pasted right buy this and did not see it.

I believe the founder is a Ph.D.. Chemist. Natureef/
Coral Reef Research Inc.

This guy use to be a friend of mine back in the 90's. His name is Adolf F. Klostermann. He is not a Ph.D chemist but electrical engineer turned self-taught chemist on his own. He is a very bright guy. I was amaze to see he is sill around and I have not see his company in any of the magazine in years and though the old coot left the hobby. Nice to see he is still around

I may have to call him to say hello.

Although I agree that either of these companies are really providing a nice service , especially Adolf, we need to ask ourselves the question are the tests accurate. And there is only on way to do this and that is to have such tests verified by ENC Labs, which nobody is about to send their sample to a $45 / single parameter test or ~ $500 - $1,000 for a 14 parameter test, where the offer it for ~$30. ENC is where I sent Elos to, to get their test kits verified to be accurate.

http://www.enclabs.com/

Here is something many may not have seen that Lee did awhile back on Ca++ test kits, which samples verified buy ENC. The results speak for themselves. # 14 on the Excel by Lee are the results done by ENC. On Jon's bar it is AAS. This was done 2 yeas ago.

Lee's for test Excel spread sheet
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...postid=5639100

Jon then put it into a easier to read bar graph

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...postid=5639607

Antman · #78 09/20/2007, 07:38 PM

Hey doesn anyone know of a service like this that will test your RO water ? Would be nice to know what the water was like going into the tank

Billybeau1 · #79 09/20/2007, 07:49 PM

That is simple Antman. You can yourself.

It's called a TDS meter. They are resonably priced and will measure the Total Dissolved Solids of your water.

A properly functioning ro/di unit should produce 0 ppm tds.

It doesn't get any better than this.

I use a dual inline meter but there are portable ones also available. It's all a matter of preference.

rleasure · #80 09/21/2007, 08:36 AM

I got my results back from aquariumwatertesting.com ealier this week. Everything matched what I was getting from my test kits, which gave me some peace of mind. My Silica was way high as well, but I attributed that to using tap water (I use RO now.)

I bought the reference pack. I figure I'll send the water out to be test once a quarter just to back-up my test kits.

Antman · #81 09/21/2007, 08:53 AM

Got my results back and looks like I got some work to do
AMM 0.008
NITRITE 0.007
NITRATE 17 would love to get this down
PHO 1.39 got to work on lowering this also
SIL 4.70 also high -I do use RO water humm
POT 376
CAL 369
BORON 3.0
MOLB .30
STRONT 12.5
MAG 1455
IOD 0.040
COPP 0.004
ALK 3.23

So I need to get my nitrates phospates down
I also use reefsolutions now I will stop for a month and see what happens

HowardW · #82 09/21/2007, 09:00 AM

<<< My Silica was way high as well, but I attributed that to using tap water (I use RO now.) >>>

Hmmm....it seems that nearly everyones silica is quite high according to that service. I was surprised at my silica levels because I use 0 TDS water for making saltwater and topoff and it runs through an 8 stage RO/DI setup including 4 seperate DI stages. I'm not really sure where my silica is coming from assuming their test readings are accurate.

Billybeau1 · #83 09/21/2007, 01:11 PM

I am going to have my water tested by this company as well as a comparison to my own testing.

But I use a silicamax cartridge for my di. I wonder if this makes a difference. I'll be anxious to see what my silica level is.

Hey Rat. Any thoughts ?

Jim ?

Is it worth the extra dough to get a silica removing di cartridge ?

HowardW · #84 09/21/2007, 01:13 PM

Billybeau, I've been busy but I will redo the 1g and 1/2 cup test soon. I will pack the moist salt down a bit and see what I get on SG.

Billybeau1 · #85 09/21/2007, 01:39 PM

I've been busy as well.

cayars · #86 09/26/2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billybeau1
I am going to have my water tested by this company as well as a comparison to my own testing.

But I use a silicamax cartridge for my di. I wonder if this makes a difference. I'll be anxious to see what my silica level is.

Hey Rat. Any thoughts ?

Jim ?

Is it worth the extra dough to get a silica removing di cartridge ?

Did you ever send a sample in to be tested?

Carlo

Billybeau1 · #87 09/26/2007, 10:01 AM

Not yet, probably next week. Been real busy.

cayars · #88 09/26/2007, 10:23 AM

Curious, how many people here would be interested in chipping in on a set of test on just salt mixes?

I've got IO, Red Sea, Oceanic, Crystal Sea and probably a couple of others sitting here I could mix up with 0 TDS (10 stage RO/DI - 3 stage DI) RO/DI water to a mix of 53mS via the Pinpoint meter and age it a day or two and then send them in for testing.

It could be very interesting to see how just the salt mixes themselves do. I know I'd like to see what the results come back as.

Who's interested? Any other salt besides the ones' mentioned above?

Carlo

Antman · #89 09/26/2007, 10:51 AM

I would love to see them results also , I would chip in on this expermint
May not be a bad idea to email them and see how we could do this .
Tropic Marin may be another choice

cayars · #90 09/26/2007, 01:16 PM

Yep definately would want to put TM down on the list. Probably both normal and Pro versions. I also neglected to add RC on the list earlier.

Ideally if a bunch of people would chip in $10 each we could get results from a bunch of different mixes.

I'd prefer to send them out all at one time so they all get tested at roughly the same time so there is no differences due to weekly calibrations and such.

If there's enough interest I'll give them a call and see if I can get a discount which I'd imagine they would do since all vials could be sent to me at one time and I'd be sending everything back at one time. At least the shipping should be cheaper along with the service I'd think. I'll check if there's enough interest.

Carlo

Boomer · #91 09/26/2007, 03:21 PM

Carlo

When or if you do this ask them if they can test for Bromide, so we can solve this kinda open debate that has been going about actual Bromide levels in seasalt. I still would like to see an second test on this to see how it compares to the Bromide levels in the Inland salt study. So we can lock this in one way or another. I would be glad to chip in if you get this set up . Something to really look at here is to get 2 tests from the same bag, where the dry salt mix is well mixed in dry form, to make sure this company is getting the same data results fronm the same bag. On may say that one may somewhere down the line ask the question is this lab testing company creditable. It for sure is not ENC Lab, as certified seawater lab, where **single*** test like Ca++ is $45

Another test, I know they can not do, is an XRD. Salt manufactures get nervous when I bring this up, as such an assay is from the dry salt mix tells you want is in the mix exactly. In other works, how much of x, y or z and even exactly to the grade of x, y or z. Basically it would generate a data sheet of all the components in a mix, what is in those components and how much. XRD is how mineralogist and petrologist determine what makes up a minerals or rocks, exactly. More than likely we would need to look to a major university geology department, where not a fee is charged but a contribution would suffice for such a test. Years ago I was going to do this. Maybe were Chris is at they have an XRD in the Geo Dept. Years ago our Geo dept was going to do it for $150 for 5 salts, but know my guy is long retired.

This is what an XRD is, short of X-Ray Diffractor. In Geo we use the Powdered XRD

From Wikkipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_diffraction

Powder diffraction is a technique use to characterize the crystallographic structure, crystallite size (grain size), and preferred orientation in polycrystalline or powdered solid samples. Powder diffraction is commonly used to identify unknown substances, by comparing diffraction data against a database maintained by the International Centre for Diffraction Data. It may also be used to characterize heterogeneous solid mixtures to determine relative abundance of crystalline compounds and, when coupled with lattice refinement techniques, such as Rietveld refinement, can provide structural information on unknown materials. Powder diffraction is also a common method for determining strains in crystalline materials.

HowardW · #92 09/26/2007, 03:26 PM

Don't forget to add Seachem Reef Salt because Billybeau is still under the delusion that their calcium tests out over 500ppm

I'd also like to see Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Lab Salt on the list. I'll pitch in...

Boomer · #93 09/26/2007, 04:57 PM

If we really want to be fare despite how we/I may fell.

1. IO

2. RC

3. Oceanic

4. Red Sea

6. TM

7. SeaChem

8. MECSB

9. Marine Environments

10. Kent

11. Coral Life

We can could call it the "Dirty Almost A Dozen Salt Assay"

Yeah, I know it is to many so we may have to vote on it

cayars · #94 09/26/2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boomer
[B]Carlo

When or if you do this ask them if they can test for Bromide, so we can solve this kinda open debate that has been going about actual Bromide levels in seasalt. I still would like to see an second test on this to see how it compares to the Bromide levels in the Inland salt study. So we can lock this in one way or another. I would be glad to chip in if you get this set up . Something to really look at here is to get 2 tests from the same bag, where the dry salt mix is well mixed in dry form, to make sure this company is getting the same data results from the same bag. On may say that one may somewhere down the line ask the question is this lab testing company creditable. It for sure is not ENC Lab, as certified seawater lab, where **single*** test like Ca++ is $45

I'll check to see if they can do Bromide Boomer but I doubt it.

Would be interesting to see how many salt companies are using DOW calcium wouldn't it?

The double test from the same batch is surely something that should be done but I guess depends on funds/contributions.

I'm anal about mixing dry salt well before using it.. I've got a mixer I use as soon as I open the bag/bucket and completely mix everything before I ever use it. Then I typically weigh and move it to smaller sealed bags ready for use later. I'll do all the mixing in glass tanks completely clean before use. I can mix up about 8-10 at the same time this way. Also worth mentioning is the RO/DI will go straight to a covered glass tank/container so there is no phosphate issues from "leaching". I'll just have to make sure the mixer is completely cleaned between each new salt.

If enough people are interested maybe would arrange to get a university to do the XRD tests as you mentioned. Worth considering and definitely a great idea! Could even be around the same price/contribution but I'd doubt it.

Carlo

cayars · #95 09/26/2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boomer
If we really want to be fare despite how we/I may fell.

1. IO
2. RC
3. Oceanic
4. Red Sea
6. TM
7. SeaChem
8. MECSB
9. Marine Environments
10. Kent
11. Coral Life

We can could call it the "Dirty Almost A Dozen Salt Assay" Yeah, I know it is to many so we may have to vote on it

What happened to #5? If I were I cop and pulled you over you'd fail the sobriety test. lol

Or how about:
1. IO
2. RC
3. Oceanic
4. Red Sea
5. Tropic Marin Sea Salt
6. Tropic Marin PRO-REEF
7. SeaChem
8. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix
9. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula
10. Kent
11. Marine Environments
12. Coral Life

Now we got a dirty dozen.

Boomer · #96 09/26/2007, 05:29 PM

I'll check to see if they can do Bromide Boomer but I doubt it

I think that also, so I'm wishing someone will tell me yes

There we go thanks for fixing that

Boomer · #97 09/26/2007, 05:33 PM

Real excuse bad cold, to much coffee and very little sleep

cayars · #98 09/26/2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HowardW
Don't forget to add Seachem Reef Salt because Billybeau is still under the delusion that their calcium tests out over 500ppm

I'd also like to see Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Lab Salt on the list. I'll pitch in...

Nah, only Oceanic tests that high.

Got both salts on the list.

Carlo

oct2274 · #99 09/26/2007, 07:05 PM

make sure to include the new red sea coral pro!

cayars · #**100** 09/26/2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oct2274
make sure to include the new red sea coral pro!

I had that one as just Red Sea before:

From here and PMs

1. Instant Ocean
2. Reaf Crystals
3. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix
4. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula
5. Oceanic
6. Red Sea Coral Pro
7. Tropic Marin Sea Salt
8. Tropic Marin PRO-REEF
9. SeaChem Marine Salt
10. SeaChem Reef Salt
11. Kent Sea Salt
12. Marine Environment dual phase formula
13. Coralife Scientific Grade Marine Salt
14. OceanPure PRO

Any others missing someone is interested in? Depending on funding we may need to limit the salts and those who contribute get a say in things.

What I'd really like to see even for just the most casual of users is a breakdown on Calcium, Alk & Mg levels of the salts and how balanced they are from something a little better then our typical test kits. It would be nice to have a new "baseline" on these 3 items as the last useful test was in 2005 and everybody posts different Ca/Alk numbers for the same salts on here!

We should be able to get some decent data from the test even though it's not super "pro" tested like ENC. How many grams of salt per gallon of water to arrive at 35% salinity. Can then figure out exactly how much water at 35% can be prepared from each bag/bucket of salt.

Initial pH, at 1hr, 5hrs, 24hrs.

I could also drop an ORP probe in the salt as it's mixing and record it at 5,10,15,... minute increments. Could be extrapolated to how fast the mix clears/dissolves. This may or may not be useful but I can do it so why not.

Any other simple "pre-test" that could be done before sending the samples I'd do if people have any ideas or requests.

We can all discuss exact mixing & procedures ahead of time to handle everything the best we can to not contaminate anything. We could also do a pure RO/DI test also just to double check to make sure no silica/phosphates are in the water and falsely raising the salt levels. I doubt it but it technically should be done.

All ideas are welcome,

Carlo