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#27
08/15/2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
 As for how hot, I saw a 3 skimmer challenge side by side early last year. Just during the mild vinegar solution cleaning, after 3 different skimmers ran overnight, the Octopus skimmer had internal water temp over 94 degrees. The only reason the dealer measured the temp was because the pump felt so hot. If you don't mind having a stuck heater on 24/7, go for it as it is a great value if you mesh mod the impeller.
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#28
08/15/2007, 05:06 PM
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#29
08/16/2007, 12:08 AM
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The 3 skimmers that I saw side by side was:
1. Octopus RPS100 (smallest recirc unit for Pacific Coast/Octopus) 2. Deltec AP600 (smallest recirc unit for Deltec) 3. H&S A110 (smallest recirc unit for H&S) I ended up buying the H&S A110 later on after I saw how these 3 skimmers performed over a 3 week period. The pump on the Octopus was hot to touch, while the other 2 were warm. All 3 pumps was external, not touching any water, but the water within the Octopus skimmer body during the vinegar solution cleaning was over 94 degrees by the next morning. Hope this helps. If you have your sump in a cool basement or in a room that is on the colder side, where heat is not a concern, by all means go for the Octopus. I didn't use a chiller on my 50g reef that my A110 was on and I wasn't going to up the heat with a hot pump and put me into needing a chiller. Where my tank was, I just needed one clip-on fan if the days got too warm. Last edited by klam114; 08/16/2007 at 12:13 AM. |
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#31
08/16/2007, 01:26 PM
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I spend a lot of time worrying about temperarture. I usually manage to keep it in similar ranges to you Carpus but it's loud-fan-city at the moment.
I currently have the Reef Devil powered by a Rio sitting in the sump (at one time I was considering keeping the Reef Devil and buying a replacement external pump). I must say I am very concerned about having a hotter pump than the Rio. I was pretty excited about the Octopus but I'm getting cold feet  and now and the Euroreef is looking more attractive.The ATI's look great although the way the BM160 is put together is a little odd...sounds like it's a little unreliable. But 550$ (for the larger model)... my goodness, I'll have to get my old--equipment sale done before I can spend that! -Adrian |
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#32
08/16/2007, 02:20 PM
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Take a look at the new high end mini Bubbleking 160, the pump is located within the skimmer too. Seems the Germans are redesigning the pumps within the skimmer so to keep the footprint as small as possible for those with limited sump space. The mini BK160 is $849, mini BK180 is $969 from Premium Aquatics. Now that is sticker shock!
http://zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7064 |
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#33
08/16/2007, 03:24 PM
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Yeah, I thought that was a pretty neat design, putting the pump inside but that wasn't my concern per se... My concerns came from this thread http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...3#post10397963
(i know you've seen it K) and are about the way the base plate is attached and the way the pumps rattle on start up and need some help to "catch". Also the fragility of the pump attachments... that may not be a concersn but pictures of the broken ATI's on delivery are worrying. -Adrian |
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#34
08/16/2007, 03:31 PM
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I live in san jose too, cupertino (a little north) my temperature is fairly constant... especially lately last couple week. fair whether. the higheset my 100 gallon tank with 15 gallon sump goes up to is 81... when its blistering hot... I hafta turn the ac on or the water can go to 84. But i associate the heat to the wheather. I'm not having any toruble iwth my skimmer at all
The only fan that I have running is a simple 6 inch fan near the MH lights to circulate air and cool the radiant heat |
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#35
08/16/2007, 04:45 PM
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#36
08/16/2007, 05:20 PM
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So I think it really comes down to how much do you want to spend and where do you want to go as far as a mixed reef, just sps, or mixed reef with lots and lots of fish that like to poop a bit for a better lack of words.
I think you can have pretty nice tank with a $500.00 or so skimmer, a decent amount of fish that don't poop quite as much, and do regular weekly maintenance. If you're anal about a sps dominant tank, with a hefty bio-load (I have three tangs in my 120g and really should pull that third one out), and you're just anal about water quality then a pricier skimmer may be worth it.
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Eileen |
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#37
08/16/2007, 06:04 PM
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Gulp, Eileen, it sounds like to you 500$ isn't a pricey skimmer. Gulp.
I do want MORE SPS and MORE successful SPS. I don't want more heat in my tank. I was thinking 300-400. I was excited to hear how inexpensive Octopus are. I'm now wanting a BM200 and I can't get by the sticker shock yet.... as I say, I'll start a forsale thread soon and mention that it's in a good cause. -Adrian |
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#38
08/16/2007, 06:31 PM
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Oooppps, please don't get the wrong idea...
Here's my take - I'm not pointing fingers at anyone .... I have an ER 6-2+ that does a pretty decent job on my 120g. I was trying to make a point that spending too much and not enough is really subjective because everyone has different ideas and opinions. I have three tangs in that 4x2x2 tank in addtion to other fish and I have to clean the film algae off just every day. For me at this point that's annoying, however if you were to ask me would I want film algae or that dreaded green bryopsis hair algae from heck then I take film algae anyday of the week. SPS like really really clean water which typically means less fish or fish that aren't poop a holics. I think everyone aspires to have really clean clear water, it still comes down to how much time vs. how much money you're willing to put down for this hobby? If you have a high bio-load and don't do much in terms of water changes, and wonder why the sps is brown well then there's an issue. How hard are you or anyone willing to work on their tank specifically an sps tank? One can be cheap and get by with cheap equipment, but make it up with water changes and constant tinkering - fine for some but not for many. Fwiw I used to think that Eheim pumps were ridiculously expensive in fact any pump over $50.00 was crazy because you could get Rio pumps for dirt cheap as were Via Aqua's - these pumps had trouble starting numerous times and finally died. Mag pumps were up one step in price, except they heated up your tank and use a bit of wattage. I have an Eheim 1262 pump on the 120g and a Quiet One 4000 on the 58g. If I only had bought the right equipment which were recommended I wouldn't have had to spend twice as much. I feel the same way about skimmers. Buy what you can afford, and understand it's limitations and go from there. The Bubble Master's are nice and I hear they will be coming out with recirc's soon (I don't know how soon). I understand they can a little finicky, but once it's broken in it should be smooth sailing from there.
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Eileen |
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#39
08/17/2007, 11:39 AM
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raddogz, well said. there is a customer of KMA Int'l that I recently befriended and her story about spending more than twice as much was shocking. Her story on her progression of skimmers on the same tank:
Euro-Reef 8 series $600 >>> AquaC EV180 $500 >>> ASM G3 Recirc $300 >>> H&S A200 $1,000 >>> H&S A150 $700 The reason for the H&S A200 was she thought that since none of the others ever worked well on her setup, she needed to oversized, even against what Ed had recommended and discouraged her from doing. She is now a happy camper with her H&S A150 on her 175g, after spending almost $2,400. Sizing and familiarity with the brand is really important for a correct match of skimmer to system. Undersize and severely oversized not a good thing. Do it right once and save "a lot of money"  in the long run.
Last edited by klam114; 08/17/2007 at 11:49 AM. |
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#40
08/17/2007, 11:56 AM
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That is a good point! We have some weird idea out there to always buy an oversized skimmer rather than buying the right sized skimmer or better described as a perfectly matched pump to skimmer body.
What I seem to find is that the lower end skimmers have mismatched parts where the pumps are not matched to the skimmer body or design very well. You wind up with an uneffective skimmer and neither is it very efficient.
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Eileen |
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#42
08/17/2007, 10:09 PM
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Just wondering ,what wrong with oversize skimmer?
 lapsan
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You can say something to popes, kings and presidents, but you can't talk to officials. In the next war they ought to give everyone a whistle |
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#44
08/18/2007, 12:47 AM
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i alway feel the manufactory overrate their skimmer.i alway go for the biggest skimmer i could afford for my tank.there no such thing as overskim tank,especially those with alot of live rocks.
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You can say something to popes, kings and presidents, but you can't talk to officials. In the next war they ought to give everyone a whistle |
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#46
08/18/2007, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
No, you're right, you cannot overskim. But, you can severely oversize your skimmer and it won't perform as well as a skimmer that is match well with your setup. One has to be very familiar with a specific skimmer line to know whether manufacturer's ratings are exaggerated or right on. Unless plenty of testing and use of different models within a skimmer line, one really cannot make claims to whether manufacturer's ratings is accurate or not. Manufacturer's specs from one company to another are not comparable either, as the pump location, size and height of inner riser tube, etc. makes a huge difference. Even the same Eheim 1260 needlewheel pump that is used on lots of different skimmers don't perform the same as the impellers are different for each skimmer company and where the pump is mounted on the skimmer body affect efficiency of the pump. Too many variables is why you really need Engineering behind a skimmer, rather than just someone slapping on a pump onto a skimmer body. Last edited by klam114; 08/18/2007 at 01:40 AM. |
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#48
08/23/2007, 11:37 AM
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It's huge yet so compact, that it fits easily into my sump... I'd already done the math but even so, when I saw it I was a little worried.
It produces one hell of a lot of bubbles. Right now it is breaking in of course and none of the bubbles are reaching the neck. Nice to buy from someone as knowledgable and helpful. -Adrian |
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#49
08/23/2007, 07:06 PM
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Just a suggestion, close down the gate valve until the bubbles reach the bottom of the collection cup. This is right after you rinse the collection cup, set it there as I've been taught that this is the Bubblemasters best starting point.
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#50
08/23/2007, 10:09 PM
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The Level is quite a bit higher right now but what the heck it should break in a bit faster if I do that.
K, I hope you know I hold you fully responsible for talking me into buying that skimmer. I haven't mentioned the price to my wife yet... luckily, it looks like I have a buyer for two of my three for sales. |
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