Cyano Woes Filter sock?

[lakee911]

My 120Gal FOWLR is better shape than it's ever been, but I'm still plagued with Cyano on my DSB surface. If I don't stir it up, the sand turns purple/brown and clumps (in easily broken sheets 1/8" thick) .

I find that as my filter sock gets more cruddy it seems to get worse. I replace it about once per week. It doesn't go away entirely once its fresh though. If I don't run one at all, I get so much crud in my sump that it gets GHA and Cyano very badly.

I do 20% water changes bimonthly.

Salinity: 1.0233
PO4: undetectable (2x resolution, salifert test)
NO3: 5ppm
Alk: 8dKH
Ca: 440ppm
Mg: 1035
pH: 8.1
Temp: 79

I run phosban and I have some chaeto that doesn't grow (maybe at all).

I've never run any cyano killing products and don't plan on it.

I've got two maxijet 1200 oceanflo mods in the tank.

I've not replaced my lighting in maybe 6-8 months. I'm planning on upgrading them, so I've held off on buying new bulbs.

Any ideas on what to do?

Jason

[fat-tony]

maybe more flow, and back on the light cycle for a while to see if it helps. The flow will help keep things in suspension longer and able to be removed.

[BigEivlSquid]

What do you have for a clean up crew? Some snails of a sand sifting gobie might help.

[Candi]

I'd first blame the old bulbs... however our of curiosity what saltmix do you use? I'm batteling cyno in two of my tanks right now as well, can't figure out what the problem is since bulbs are new, tons of flow, light feeding etc.. however my other tank (that I use a different salt on) is perfect... I think I got a bad bucket. How long have you had the issue?

[lakee911]

I have various snails and hermits. I might add some additional nassarius snails though. I have a black cuke and he doesn't seem to spend much time on the sand bed anymore. He's on the glass or in the rocks. Maybe I should trade him in for a new model?

I'd be hesitant about a sandsifting goby because he'd probably clean out the critters in the sand bed and probably dirupt the DSB, no? Besides I've got a yellow watchman goby already.

If I stir up, or some critter stirs up the cyano and it gets turned under, what happens too it? Periodically I stir the top surface of the sand to make it white (or white-ish) again. Is that bad?

I use IO salt and I've always used it. It tests pretty well. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the numbers in my tank don't seem bad. When I upgrade the lights, I bet it will only exhasberate the problem.

Thx,
Jason

[capn_hylinur]

Many other reefers including myself change the filter sock daily if not every other day. If they are getting as bad as you say then they are contributing to putting nitrates phospates back into your system

[capn_hylinur]

[i
I've never run any cyano killing products and don't plan on it.

Any ideas on what to do?

Jason [/B]

three months I was in the same boat as you---tried all the natural methods I could.
When the cyano started moving up the rocks towards my coral I gave in and used red slime remover
It worked like a charm in 12 hrs---nothing was affected ---no return of it.

There comes a time when we have to face the fact that are tanks are not true natural reef systems and resort to some "unnatural solutions" to keep our critters healthy.

The only caution with red slime remover is that the tank should be a mature tank over 6 months

[lakee911]

I'd be more inclined to put it in my tank if I knew what was in it, Capn. Do you know? I've NEVER had it on my rocks. Only on sand and glass (and on surface of my sump). Odd

Jason

[uscharalph]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur

The only caution with red slime remover is that the tank should be a mature tank over 6 months

That and you can't use your skimmer for about a week.

[lakee911]

Did some reading ... I don't want to add antibiotics to the tank. I changed my filter sock tonight. I've never heard of anyone changing it more often than twice weekly. I'll change it again on Wed too and see if thats helping.

Jason

[catdoc]

I siphon out cyano when I see it. I figure it's one way to accomplish the "nutrient export" side of the problem as well as making the nasty stuff go away. Downside is that you do lost a little bit of sand each time you do it (luckily, I've only had to do it 2 or 3 times). My grow-out tank is bare-bottom, so I siphon it out quite a bit and that helps to minimize what crops up in the main tank.

[Kannin]

First of all... If you have cyano, it may be using the PO 4 b4 it can register on your test. I had a horrible cyano problem and the only time it would show up on the test was 1 day after I syphoned the cyano out. Then the cyano would return.

I solved my problem by limiting the nutrients I put in the tank. I believe I was adding it when I fed. I feed frozen foods and I am told they are full of phosphates. I used to thaw the food in a shot glass of tank water and then I would dump the whole thing in the tank. I added the reactor... I added flow... I reduced the photo period... but when I started draining the melt from the food... The cyano fianlly went away.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by uscharalph
That and you can't use your skimmer for about a week.

really---why---I never had any problems with running the skimmer.

but its good to know if you shouldn't

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by lakee911
Did some reading ... I don't want to add antibiotics to the tank. I changed my filter sock tonight. I've never heard of anyone changing it more often than twice weekly. I'll change it again on Wed too and see if thats helping.

Jason

that's why I thought too --until participating on a few threads and found filter socks were being changed every other day--I'll try to find the links to those threads for you.

[lakee911]

Hmm. Cool. I'd be interested in reading them. I've not gotten search to work in forever. Maybe my subscription is up? I've been banging on it forever...

I used to feed frozen daily and dump it in. I had GHA out the wazoo (and it was covered in Cyano). I rarely feed it now and I rinse it when I do. I feed flake, pellots and stuff I can see them eat now. Some days I don't feed just to keep nutrients down. Poor 'lil guys.

Jason

[tgosling]

I had a bad cyano outbreak recently. I tried changing the phospate remover, adding more circulation, changing bulbs, lots of water changes - made no difference. Then I noticed that the TDS reading on my RO water was high, changed the RO membrance and the cyano went away within a week or two. Would be worth checking that your RO water is not adding the nutrients that is feeding the cyano.

[lakee911]

I actually checked that last night. My DI resin is almost exhausted, but I'm still getting 0 TDS reading on it. If my salifert tests will do freshwater, I'll run a nitrate and phosphate test on the RO water to be sure.

I actually snapped a pic of some Cyano on my sand last night. Unfortunately, I forgot to download it. It shows two spots on the sand. One is dark purple and crusty and the other is just a light brown dusting. I wonder if they're the same thing?

Jason

[lakee911]

Here's that pic of the two patches from last night.




Today there is less Cyano with the cleaner filter sock. I'll replace again tomorrow afternoon.

[capn_hylinur]

good show---make sure you are directing a power head at it also--get that stuff into the water column where it can be filtered out.

[lakee911]

Are those both of those patches Cyano?

I don't know how I can direct a powerhead at everything and not have a big sandstorm. Because the powerheads are in the upper part of the back of the tank and rock in the middle, I don't get as much flow in the back, especially under them. Also, most of my sand has shifted to the back. I've got 8+ inches in some parts of the back and down to 1 inch in the front.

I wish my tank was drilled....

[capn_hylinur]

can you use a turkey baster on the stuff in the picture.

You need to look at ways changing your circulation so you don't have areas like this----cyano loves the debris that accumulates in a low flow area.

I would go with three koralina threes in there---they give a wider degree of flow then a straight power head. go two back corners and the middle.

[lakee911]

Ahh, you're referring to the Hydor Koralia powerheads. Are you recommending I place one in the front middle, per haps? That wouldn't be sightly...right in the middle.

Perhaps I could use my return pump to get some additional flow to dead spots. I'm going to research that power head that you recommended and might give it a go.

Thx
Jason

[kevin2000]

How old is the tank? Over time a DSB eventually reaches a limit and starts to leach phosphates rather than absorb them - sometimes called "old tank syndrome". Once the phosphate starts to leach you end up with chronic cyano and other algae issues.

Frequent water changes (using RO), daily cleaning of filter media, avoiding high phosphate food (flake), rinsing fozen food, cutting back on feeding, dripping Kalkwasser, use of phosphate binding agent, and use of macro algae are the popular cycno control methods. Higher water flow helps suspend crud which can then be filtered out of the system.

Cyano is unsightly but doesn't harm the tank (unless its mothering corals) ... if you patient you can just let it grow you can just peridically siphon it out (along with the phosphates) and eventually the problem will go away (so long as you also limit the importation of phosphates)

Good luck.

[capn_hylinur]

with the three's they are strong enough to place near the top end of the tank--and they don't look that unsightly
I have a high 120 g---the three near the top is churning the water yet it is combining with the middle to still give some flow across the sand.
The easist way to check your flow is with a piece of flake food and follow it--you don't need alot of flow across the substrate just enough to keep anything moving on the surface of the substrate.

I think the price we pay for the ugliness of the ph's is punishment for not getting a closed loop system from the beginning

[DT's_Reef]

I had some cyano here and there on my sand in my 90 system, and really cranking up the flow got rid of it. My flow is high enough that I have to be careful where it's aimed or my sand shifts around a good bit.

Anyway, it went away totally. Maybe it's more difficult for nutrients to collect on the sandbed surface with all that current.