Too Much Flow? Where's the limit?

parliament28 · #1 05/19/2004, 11:40 PM

After a lot of thought, I think I'm going to move my 20 long into a 29 gallon rather than moving into a 75 gallon - as I can't put down the cash for all the equipment needed for the 75.

Tell me if I'm doing too much with this flow set up, or if you would make any changes. Suggestions welcome!

AGA 29 gallon
- Rio SEIO 620 mounted dead center on back glass (~600 gph)
- Mag-Drive 5 (or 7?) connected to PVC non-drilled closed loop w/ SCWD (~300 gph w/ Mag 5, and ~450 w/ Mag 7)

Total:
900 gph w/ Seio Mag 5 and SCWD - 31x tank turnover
1050 gph w/ Seio Mag 7 and SCWD - 36x tank turnover

Is this too much? I'm looking for the epitome of small tank water movement. Will this just be a churning mess?
-Pull the RIO SEIO or the Closed Loop? or neither?

SeanT · #2 05/20/2004, 12:19 AM

Nah you don't have anywhere near too much IMO.
I am getting close to 100 x turnover in my tank and all is more than well.
I used to think of it as a static number as "X turnover" but now I think about it in many more ways.
Jet, stream, surge, rotating, angles, deflection, reflection, where is it going, how many other areas can I get it into, etc etc.

With the types of corals we are keeping I feel that unless it splashes over the edge of the tank you are OK.

parliament28 · #3 05/20/2004, 12:24 AM

Good point, that was my basic idea in going with the SCWD and RIO SEIO, with the alternating output of the SCWD and rotation of the SEIO, I should get a good variance in water flow, as the switching of the SCWD won't be synchronous with the rotation of the SEIO.
All said and done, I think I'll go with a Mag 5 though, over a 1000 gph just seems insane in a 29 gallon.

mike_ripple · #4 05/23/2004, 11:47 PM

I would go with the mag7 and put a ball valve on it and in case you have too much flow you can just throttle it back a bit. The mag7 doesn't cost much more and won't leave you wishing that you bought it later if you are wanting more flow.

OUinLA · #5 05/24/2004, 12:06 AM

I plan to have at the minimum of 3500 gph in my 60 cube

parliament28 · #6 05/24/2004, 12:12 AM

3500 GPH?!? I can't even imagine... that's around 60x turnover.

I went ahead and ordered the mag 7 and SEIO 620. I'm going barebottom, so once I have the cash I'll order an overflow and a mag 9.5 to return from a sump. I'm going to try to push the limit in a smaller tank.

Thanks for the encouragement.

justgettinstarted · #7 05/24/2004, 12:36 AM

i have ~55x turnover on my sps tank... its nice!

Lunchbucket · #8 05/24/2004, 08:27 AM

i'm only gettin around 25x's

everything loves the flow but i am sure i could pack more in there

Lunchbucket

mane3215 · #9 05/24/2004, 11:32 AM

Wow, is all that flow needed? I am new to sps and plumbing a new 78g cube I will be ordering. I planed on running a dolphin 2100 through closed loop, and whatever is coming back from my return and aiming for like 30x's turn over. I will be keeping lps in there as well as 1-2 colonies of zoos so I would like the flow for the sps, but not the others =).

s13silvia · #10 05/24/2004, 12:04 PM

i currently have about 48x turnover in my tank currently and after a few upgrades i should be close to 60x

scbauer · #11 05/24/2004, 12:10 PM

I have an Iwaki 40RLXT going through a SCWD on my 20-Long... I'm guessing it's just over 1000 GPH (turnover is 50 times per hour). Both me and my fish love it. Some of the smaller coral frags have to be picked up off the sand occasionally, but that is because I didn't glue them to anything heavy.

-Scott

SawCJack00 · #12 05/24/2004, 12:11 PM

I'm currently at 146 X turnover on my 125 with 4 Tunze 6080's, 2 Tunze 6100's, a Pan world 1100 GPH on a closed loop, A mag12 on a closed loop, and an Ocean Runner 650 GPH return.The corals all love it.

s13silvia · #13 05/24/2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SawCJack00
I'm currently at 146 X turnover on my 125 with 4 Tunze 6080's, 2 Tunze 6100's, a Pan world 1100 GPH on a closed loop, A mag12 on a closed loop, and an Ocean Runner 650 GPH return.The corals all love it.

you my friend are insane.... i love it

blgreef · #14 05/24/2004, 01:35 PM

5* Tunze 6100 two Iwaki 40RLXT as returns from the sump, 180 Gallon ish tank.

so about 108 X when all running and i can see places where more flow would be good. Not as good as 146 X .

Fish do not have a problem two large tangs, some green chromis and anthias. when all the pumps are flat out they get blown about but can handle it no problem,

Only down side with the streams seems to be when an urchin or snail gets onto the front of the pump in tide mode only to be luanched when the pump kicks in,

Lunchbucket · #15 05/24/2004, 03:58 PM

SawCJack00 - you are on CRAZY pills buddy!! LOL i am USRE you corals LOVE IT!! can't wait to get to the cities and hsee your system sometime!!

Lunchbucket

mane3215 · #16 05/24/2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SawCJack00
I'm currently at 146 X turnover on my 125 with 4 Tunze 6080's, 2 Tunze 6100's, a Pan world 1100 GPH on a closed loop, A mag12 on a closed loop, and an Ocean Runner 650 GPH return.The corals all love it.

No sand bed?

G-money · #17 05/24/2004, 05:26 PM

My old 90 gallon only had about 20x turnover in it and the SPS corals grew as well as any I've ever had.

Pennoyer · #18 05/24/2004, 06:54 PM

No water in the tank yet, so I can't comment on the effect, but I have two Sequence 4200 (one return cut back to ~2000 gph and one on CL ~3800gph) planned on a 90. ~65x turnover. I am hoping to be able to hold about 1" - 2" of sand on the bottom if not I'll cut the flow back a little. Water may/should go in this weekend so more to report later.

Aaron1100us · #19 05/25/2004, 03:01 AM

I know good flow is important but isn't it a little too much when your fishies start getting dizzy from constantly bouncing off the sides of the aquarium? J/K

I do understand that corals like acros, especially large ones need good current though the middle. IMO, I think the best way to get current going is to have a surge device that goes off every once in a while combined with constant "normal" water movement. The only problem with that is you need room to set up something like that and people like me who live in an apartment can't do that. The president of our club has an awsome 225 gallon with dual 5 gallon surge bucketts. What is cool is that it isn't constant (like the ocean) but when it does go off, WOW, it sure sends a rush of water into the tank. But for me, all I can do is use my SCWD on a closed loop with mag 9.5 and a mag 7 for return. I could probably stand to use a little more current but everything is doing just fine with that way its set up (so far).

SawCJack00 · #20 05/25/2004, 11:18 AM

That's correct, no sand bed, which is why I have so much flow. It's my goal to keep as much suspended as possible. Also since the 6100's are on pulse mode between 30% - 100%, it's not 146X all the time, just half

. It's only been running this way for a couple of weeks, so I can't really comment on the results except to say that no corals have reacted negatively, and the fish seem to be OK. I'll report back in a few months when I have better results, but one of the keys to my growth in my old 450 (IMHO) was flow, so I tried to improve on that. We'll see what happens!

culdublvd · #21 05/27/2004, 02:43 AM

I'm running a 29 gal with a mag 7 on a spraybar and a maxi-jet 900 on a wave timer. Next comes another maxi-jet and a mag9.5 at least!!

blgreef · #22 05/27/2004, 10:07 AM

even at 146X i doubt we come even close to what the ocean can generate.

With 100+ the fish do not have any major issues and can always find a semi dead spot in the tank, now I run my pumps at low power during the night as the fish stay in the acros and did not look like fun having them swimming like crazy just to stay inbetween the branches.

Eric Boerner · #23 05/27/2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blgreef
even at 146X i doubt we come even close to what the ocean can generate.

But the ocean generates currents as walls of water moving, not direct, focused 1" to 5" consentrated blasting streams.

Its not the amount of flow you have, but how you use it.

Even at x100 a focused narrow stream would blast the flesh right off acropora sp. Many evenly dispersed outlets with w-i-d-e nozzles should allow you to push into the 100's of turn-over without problems for the fish too.

moonpod · #24 05/27/2004, 05:30 PM

That's why that new tunze wavebox has got me so excited. The whole tank of water shifting from side to side.....

blgreef · #25 05/28/2004, 03:58 AM

Its not the amount of flow you have, but how you use it.

very valid point and i would think even with 10* given enough pressure and a small enough nozzle even this would strip flesh.

But on my tank the smalles outlet is 1.5 Inches with 5 streams each having a 2 inch output so the flow gets soft rather quickly.

The sohal tang in the tank will easily swim up to the front of a running stream to have a pick at it