Dead fishy

[soccerman77]

So the green chromis I had in Qt died after 4 days. No signs of illness other then not eating. However I didn't treat the tank yet because I didn't want to waste the medicine on a $5 fish and he showed no real signs of illness and I have some more fish in the mail. Anyways my question is do some fish just not ship well through the mail or could this guy possibly have been saved considering water params were ok?

[Rue]

Originally posted by soccerman77
I didn't want to waste the medicine on a $5 fish

...I didn't think the price of an animal dictated its level of care...

[kevin2000]

No simple answer. Lots of factors may have contributed to the fish's death.

I have always found that live brine shrimp is a great way of getting a new fish to eat in a QT .. something to consider.

Heres a good article on how to QT ... note the sections that deal with stress reduction .. often overlooked by many aquarist.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=288805

[sam1174]

Originally posted by Rue
...I didn't think the price of an animal dictated its level of care...

Uh... I disagree. It's a fish, and only a fish. If you are concerned about the welfare of fish, then you should probably not fee your fish silver sides, or shrimp., or just about any other food, for that matter.

I ate a filet-o-fish at McDonalds tonight. I love the fish in my reef tank, but the filet-o-fish still tasted good.

[snappedbigfoot]

Originally posted by sam1174
Uh... I disagree. It's a fish, and only a fish. If you are concerned about the welfare of fish, then you should probably not fee your fish silver sides, or shrimp., or just about any other food, for that matter.

I ate a filet-o-fish at McDonalds tonight. I love the fish in my reef tank, but the filet-o-fish still tasted good.

Sam yes I ate salmon tonight too, but that salmon was made for that reason. The Chromis wa bought as a pet, not a item of food for you. if You Buy A Fish as a pet, it means you made a commitment to care for it. So it's not a fish and only a fish, its a pet a member of your family that you choose to make a commitment for. It doesn't Upset to feed fish to other fish but it was bought as a pet not a feeder. Like rue said
QUOTE]Originally posted by Rue
...I didn't think the price of an animal dictated its level of care... [/QUOTE]

[magdelan]

I know that we're getting off the subject here but I too have to chime in. I have four cats, one dog, one cockatiel, one iguanna, and many fish and corals. Each of these "pets" were bought at a price. I don't love my $400 Ragdoll cat any more than my "free" Maine Coon (well maybe a little more) and I don't love my $100 cockatiel anymore than my $500 Siamese. My point is, everything has a pricetag. It doesn't mean that you should give any less towards the care for the pet. Just for the sake of argument, would you (soccerman) have said the same thing if that $5 fish was an Achilles Tang or a Blue Face Angel?

I like being the Devil's advocate.

PS- sorry to hear about your chromis. If he was not eating, there was not much you could have done in my opinion. Do you have propper flow in the tank. How is the aeration in the tank (enough oxygen?)

good luck

[afo2046]

Originally posted by Rue
...I didn't think the price of an animal dictated its level of care...

Why must people post things like this? I mean he was asking a simple question and somehow that turned into a chance to say something sarcastic. I for one would treat a BMW a little different than I would treat a Pinto so I can understand what he was saying. True cars aren’t living creatures but if we were all humane we would leave the fish in the wild and work on conserving their environment. Instead we snatch them from the ocean and placing them in our homes for our own personal enjoyment. Lighten up a little bit guys this is suppose to be a hobby.

[ChrisB]

Does it really make a difference what the buyers "intention" is when they buy an animal?

I used to buy hamsters (they didn't have feeder mice back then) to feed my boa. Noone but I knew the fate of the "pet". The clerk would talk baby talk to the hamsters and put them in a " Going to your new home" box. Within an hour the hamster's lives ended in extreme violence.

if we were all humane we would leave the fish in the wild and work on conserving their environment. Instead we snatch them from the ocean and placing them in our homes for our own personal enjoyment. Lighten up a little bit guys this is suppose to be a hobby.

afo2046 - very well said.

[Jojoyojimbi]

I ate a filet-o-fish at McDonalds tonight. I love the fish in my reef tank, but the filet-o-fish still tasted good. [/B]

that is a bold faced lie!

[Rue]

Originally posted by afo2046
Why must people post things like this? I mean he was asking a simple question and somehow that turned into a chance to say something sarcastic. I for one would treat a BMW a little different than I would treat a Pinto so I can understand what he was saying. True cars aren’t living creatures but if we were all humane we would leave the fish in the wild and work on conserving their environment. Instead we snatch them from the ocean and placing them in our homes for our own personal enjoyment. Lighten up a little bit guys this is suppose to be a hobby.

He opened the door by stating he didn't want to spend any money on his fish...

Food animals and pet animals have different purposes and need to be treated differently...if you don't want to look after a pet don't get one...

Does it really make a difference what the buyers "intention" is when they buy an animal?

I used to buy hamsters (they didn't have feeder mice back then) to feed my boa. Noone but I knew the fate of the "pet". The clerk would talk baby talk to the hamsters and put them in a " Going to your new home" box. Within an hour the hamster's lives ended in extreme violence.

Of course it makes a difference! I have a snake...she eats mice and rats that have been reared as food and properly prepared...to avoid going totally off topic I'll refrain from the danger of feeding live rodents to pet reptiles...

[ArgonDreams]

OP: I would treat the tank regardless unless you plan on draining and re-filling it before the "other" fish come in. Better safe the sorry.

Rue, snappedbigfoot, magdelon: Just because his moral code establishes a pecking order for his pets doesn't mean he has to follow your ideals.

Good luck with your next fish OP!

[taillonjohn]

My Opinion: A $5 fish is just a very small part of $$thousands display. I'm sure the medicine for the fish would cost more than $5. Are reef aquariums 'pets', members of our families, or are they a household decoration? I think the answer is in the eye of the beholder.

maybe summer heat is getting to people.... I see a lot of trashing of posts here lately, something I haven't really seen since I joined this forumn.

just my 2 cents

[Rue]

I wasn't trashing. I stated an opinion...hopefully to provoke thought...

Apparently some people don't agree with my opinion or the need to think about how we consciously treat other species ...

And that's all I gotta say on the subject! I'm off to research corals...

[soccerman77]

Wow that did get pretty heated. I do care a lot about my inhabitants which is why I posted to begin with. I basically wanted to know if it's possible for fish to not ship well or if there's something I could have done (including using my expensive medicine on one fish) . I live in montana and I can't just go to the store to buy anything out here. I have to ship EVRYTHING. Shipping + the price of medicine can cost a lot not to mention a week unless you ship overnight for even more. Say you have a dog that was sick with cancer. Sure you love the dog but are you really gonna pay $1000 dollars for brain surgery for you dog? Price does matter when it comes to pets unless you are rich. Maybe this example is a little extreme but I just wanted some basic advice on how most animals ship and you guys turned this into an ethical debate.

[mr_o98]

Some animals donot ship well, however, chromis are an extremely hardy species and usually ship well. Maybe it was sick before you got it.
Live brine shrimp is a good way to get picky eaters to start eating. Raising them your self isn't very expensive.

I would spend $1000 on my dog for brain surgery, for something like this is exactly why I have pet insurance for my 3 dogs.

[bues0022]

soccerman77 - don't let some soapboxers get you down. You did exactly what I would have done. I can definately understand not spending an exhorbant amount of resources (time, medicine, money) on a fish that was in such a condition. To those of us who can't afford every care for every animal in our life, be it large or small, it unfortunately does come down to a cost-benefit analysis. I know I can't afford to spend $1000's on a dog surgery, and though a different scale, spending more money on the medicine for such a low price fish seems a little silly. Sure, you like the fish, but come on.
Before everyone comes and flames me now, I had my cat pass away on me this spring. Large tumor next to the heart that COULD have been operated on and MAYBE pulled through, but since money doesn't grow on trees I put her down. If I could afford every treatment, I'll be damned if I wouldn't do everything I could to save my cat - and a $5 fish.

To everyone else - lets not turn this place into a big ethical debating house. His question was simple and he got a very hostile feedback....where's the love?

[smartang22]

Although I am new to this comparatively, I did QT the fish I have. I did not start out by dosing the tank. I visually observed the fish and should I have seen something wrong I would have then medicated. However, I do have access to fish stores. If I would not have access then I would buy preventative meds for the "just in case" situtaion. It may seem like a waste, but if you are in dire need, then it is there. If not, then there is a couple bucks wasted. Maybe if you just have meds handy then you could treat immediately and not wait for shipping.

Also, three years ago I had a sick bird and I spent about $1500 on him. Sadly he died, but I would spend an unlimited amount if that meant lessening his suffering.

Salty tanks are expensive all around and if you cheap out with anything then you pay the price. And you have to be ready for anything.

[WaterKeeper]

We calming down here folks?

I do want to point out that medications should not be applied routinely to newly arrived fish. There is no telling what they may or may not have so just throwing in Miracle Cure X for the heck of it is just rolling the dice. That is why we have QT tanks.

Anyway, shipping is always a hazard. There is no way to tell if the fish was exposed to overly cold or hot conditions during transport. Ammonia concentrations can soar in a closed bag. Get the refund and hope that the next arrivals do far better.

[Mare100]

Originally posted by smartang22
Also, three years ago I had a sick bird and I spent about $1500 on him. Sadly he died, but I would spend an unlimited amount if that meant lessening his suffering.

Salty tanks are expensive all around and if you cheap out with anything then you pay the price. And you have to be ready for anything.

Good for you Smartang! I raised parrots for years and I had one that I spent over $2,000 treating and trying to save. I am in no way "rich"....and it meant giving up alot to pay off the vet. He didn't make it either....but you know what...I do feel "rich" (of heart that is) because I did what I did for him.

Sometimes taking on an animal....any animal....might end up being a costly endeavor. That's the chance we take when we make a commitment to take care of another being.

I don't think anybody here is "soapboxing" and NOBODY should be made to feel bad because they want to see animals....ANY animal....treated properly. There should be more people like that in the world.

OK...I'm done. I wasn't going to jump in on this post.....but the treatment of animals has always been a touchy subject for me. I've seen FAR too many terrible things in my life. So if anybody thinks I'm "soapboxing"....so be it.

M

[ChrisB]

Is there such a thing as a "domesticated" saltwater fish?

Just curious....

[WaterKeeper]

I think the closest we have to that is "captive bred/tank raised".