can I see some pics of bare bottom tanks?

[Bomber]

Worse Jaret.

With a shallow sand bed you're trapping waste - but you don't have the bottom anaerobic area to store it.

So it just leaks a lot.

[drtango]

Prof. Bomber posted a full tank pic of mine earlier in this post (thanks!), here's some slightly more recent shots taken at the "one year starboard" mark. Most everything you see, except the monster green milli (one of the few survivors of my DSB meltdown) started as a frags or LFS rescues a year ago. Growth and colors are outrageous without phosphate poisoning and more flow.






John

[smoknreefrs]

nicey nice

[K9]

Originally posted by drtango
Prof. Bomber posted a full tank pic of mine earlier in this post (thanks!), here's some slightly more recent shots taken at the "one year starboard" mark. Most everything you see, except the monster green milli (one of the few survivors of my DSB meltdown) started as a frags or LFS rescues a year ago. Growth and colors are outrageous without phosphate poisoning and more flow.

John

That's it! After all these fantastic photos, I'm sucking the sand out of my tank for sure now. Starboard here I come! Wheeee!

[jamjam_77]

dr tango, looking at you pics is that just a lil bit of sand at the botom or is that just algae. I kind of like that idea though, I have a bare bottom right now cause I'm cycling my tank but after looking at few of these pics they look nice without anything.

[boxfishpooalot]

You might need to call a dump truck on that 10g nano But go for it!

[boxfishpooalot]

I stole this from another thread Its SMI's Tank:

[onefin]

Amazing tanks.

[bpd964]

quesion.. so are you saying that I don't need that phosban reactor I just purchased if I am going bare bottom...

[Bomber]

Originally posted by bpd964
quesion.. so are you saying that I don't need that phosban reactor I just purchased if I am going bare bottom...

Before you take your sand out, read every barebottom, starboard, wet skimming etc thread you can find.

[bpd964]

I did ..... and my sand has gone bye bye already. I am filling with ro/di water. I am on the 2nd day of the fill... should be full by 3 am.

[boxfishpooalot]

looking good

[NexDog]

Originally posted by Bomber
Worse Jaret.

With a shallow sand bed you're trapping waste - but you don't have the bottom anaerobic area to store it.

So it just leaks a lot.

But if the bacteria can handle it.........

Sometimes your argument feels like if you don't go BB your animals will suffer but this is simply not true.

[Weatherman]

Originally posted by NexDog
Sometimes your argument feels like if you don't go BB your animals will suffer but this is simply not true.

Depends on the animal.

This Seriatopora was definitely suffering, after being in my 180-gallon tank for 15 months (the tank had a shallow sand bed at the time).





Here it is after around 4 ½ months in a bare-bottom tank.

[bpd964]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
looking good

Thanks..


As I mentioned in my other thread, I just want to try it out for myself to see what it's liked to go BB before I make any comments about it. I just mark all this down as a hobby and a never ending learning experience.. When they decide to start a 20" sand bed craze, I will probably try that too...

[mattydub]

hey bomber...what is your lighting setup?

[Bomber]

Originally posted by NexDog
But if the bacteria can handle it.........

Sometimes your argument feels like if you don't go BB your animals will suffer but this is simply not true.

Uh no. It's bacteria that are creating it, of course they "can handle it".

I just don't sugar coat it or maybe say what you want to hear.

If you use a DSB, you should know what it does.
If you use a SSB, you should know what it does.
If you go BB, you should know what it does.

There's just not much to point out about BB systems. Either you keep them clean or you have problems. It's that simple. But you can SEE if a BB system is clean just by looking - no surprises.

[NexDog]

Weatherman, that's a pretty compelling series of pictures for sure. It would be nice to know which corals are more susceptible to the compounds leaked out of sand beds. Information like that would be most beneficial to the hobby.

But does your 120g BB have the same amount of flow, filtration, light and other things such as calcium additives etc? There might be other factors responsible for this coral colouring up some much.

(Sorry to draw thread off course but it's a decent argument.)

[Bomber]

Originally posted by NexDog
It would be nice to know which corals are more susceptible to the compounds leaked out of sand beds.

The one's you don't find in dirty lagoons.

[NexDog]

LOL, that's the spirit.

[boxfishpooalot]

Originally posted by Bomber
Uh no. It's bacteria that are creating it, of course they "can handle it".

I just don't sugar coat it or maybe say what you want to hear.

If you use a DSB, you should know what it does.
If you use a SSB, you should know what it does.
If you go BB, you should know what it does.

There's just not much to point out about BB systems. Either you keep them clean or you have problems. It's that simple. But you can SEE if a BB system is clean just by looking - no surprises.

Excellent point Bomber. If you cant see what its doing why keep one(sand bed)

[Weatherman]

Originally posted by NexDog
Weatherman, that's a pretty compelling series of pictures for sure. It would be nice to know which corals are more susceptible to the compounds leaked out of sand beds. Information like that would be most beneficial to the hobby.

But does your 120g BB have the same amount of flow, filtration, light and other things such as calcium additives etc? There might be other factors responsible for this coral colouring up some much.

(Sorry to draw thread off course but it's a decent argument.)

Let’s see… first the similarities…

Both tanks use natural seawater, with calcium and alkalinity maintained by calcium hydroxide (neither tank uses a calcium reactor).

Standard parameters are the same: salinity 1.025, calcium 400, alk 8-9, temp 80.

Both tanks are lit by 250-watt double-ended 10,000K metal halide bulbs in PFO Mini Pendants (AB on the 180 and Ushio on the 120).

The 180 has two 6100 Tunze Streams and a 1000 gph return pump from the sump. The 120 has a single 6100 Tunze Stream and two eductors driven by an Iwaki 55.


Differences…

The 180 had a 1� sand bed. The 120 is bare-bottom.

The 180 was using Miracle Mud, macro algae and an undersized skimmer for filtration. The 120 has no mud or macro algae in the sump, and has a Bullet III driven by an Iwaki 40.

In the 180, the Seriatopora was receiving a PAR of around 300 for eight hours a day. In the 120, it’s receiving a PAR of around 220 for a little over five hours a day.

The 180 has a four-inch Powder Blue Tang, a little Yellow Clown Goby and two mandarins. The 120 is fishless.

The 180 was a year-and-a-half old. The 120 was five-weeks-old (so much for needing a “mature� tank for sps) when the Seriatopora was moved from the 180 to the 120 in March.


Bottom line. The water in the 120 is, simply, cleaner than the water was in the 180, even though nitrates and phosphates in the 180 were always too low to measure. The Seriatopora, apparently, is very sensitive to water quality. That one coral is the main reason why I chose to set up a new bare-bottom tank from scratch (the 120) and remove the sand bed from the 180.

[NexDog]

Thanks for that detailed post. Your 120g is fishless and has better skimming. You could put an SSB in there because there's no detritus to trap. No doubt that the coral is sensitive but the lack of sand is only one factor. The water purity comes from the lack of fish in my uneducated and inexperienced opinion.

[Weatherman]

Originally posted by NexDog
Thanks for that detailed post. Your 120g is fishless and has better skimming. You could put an SSB in there because there's no detritus to trap.

You might be amazed at the amount of stuff that Bullet skims out. My army of astreas does produce a prodigious amount of poop.

Originally posted by NexDog
No doubt that the coral is sensitive but the lack of sand is only one factor. The water purity comes from the lack of fish in my uneducated and inexperienced opinion.

No fish does help, but I think most people would consider a single tang, a little clown goby and two little mandarins to be a very low fish load for a 180.

[NexDog]

Ah yes, good point on the invert poop. But I'm betting you have more snails in the 180? Definitely a low fish load for sure.