Are refugiums good for SPS systems?

killagoby · #1 05/18/2007, 03:48 PM

Would a 10 gallon fuge with a 3 inch sandbed and algae be beneficial for a SPS/LPS system?

ReefWreak · #2 05/18/2007, 03:50 PM

It wouldn't hurt. The larger the better, but it'll certainly help control nitrates and phosphates and do a bunch of other good things with your tank.

Serioussnaps · #3 05/18/2007, 03:57 PM

More than 3 inches on the sandbed IMHO....think 5 inches. I pulled my fuge and replaced it with a reactor with GFO and carbon...much more effective.

ReefWreak · #4 05/18/2007, 04:04 PM

It's not really more effective, it just does different things, each has different plusses and minuses. The reactor with carbon and GFO is good just for pulling trace elements and phosphate, but a refugium with cheato and a nice sandbed does those things and provides food for coral in the tank and such. It especially helps if you've got a more intense light on the fuge.

hatfielj · #5 05/18/2007, 04:21 PM

Are refugiums good for sps tanks?
ABSOLUTELY!!
They are a very important form of natural filtration that really help keep the water as pristine as possible. The macroalgae like chaeto and such are very important for getting rid of phosphates and nitrates for your water and also help to stabilize your pH at night (if you run it on a reverse lighting schedule). The sand bed and extra live rock are also important in helping to further reduce nitrates and ammonia due to the large area for bacterial growth. The most successful tanks almost always have a healthy functioning refugium as part of their system.

drtango · #6 05/18/2007, 04:35 PM

Agree with Serioussnaps.

If your tank is dirty enough to support a healthy crop of chaeto in a refugium, you might not have the water quality to support good growth and color. My chaeto died when I ditched the sandbed and went with agressive skimming and GFO/carbon. SPS are thriving.

John

killagoby · #7 05/18/2007, 10:12 PM

Sounds good guys. It works on my 29 gallon so I guess when I switch my 75 gallon over I'll do it with that tank too. I plan on making that one all SPS's. My 29 gallon is currently LPS's and SPS's.

kenettson1 · #8 05/18/2007, 10:30 PM

I use a carbon/GFO reactor and have a fuge. It's been up and running on my new tank for about 6 months and seems to be great.

Jasonincuritiba · #9 05/19/2007, 12:06 AM

Most macro algae use more trace elements than running GFO and/or Carbon also you have to worry about them going sexual, I prefer the Zeovit method no phosphates, undectable nitrates, and low nutrient has given me great results with color and growth of SPS. Personally I think refugiums are redundant and as necessary as bioballs are in a reef aquarium

jmluna · #10 05/19/2007, 04:58 AM

Well I had add a refugium to my Reef and all is running grate.

Since I started the refugium I have no nitrate, no phosphate and I put meal at the Reef three or four times dayly.

My refugium is about 50 galons for a 200 galons reef. With DSB and plenty of macroalgae: chaetomorpha, caulerpa, halimeda and others.

I have very nice colors in my SPS (you can see at www.almontereef.blogspot.com). In fact I had some sexuals problems with macros, but a little of iron solve the problem.

I prefer refugium because this is more natural. I do not like ZEO because this is not natural, this is pure chemistry and I do not like it. ZEO put the corasl in the way of yonkies

Grettings and sorry about my bad English.

gasman059 · #11 05/19/2007, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmluna
Well I had add a refugium to my Reef and all is running grate.

Since I started the refugium I have no nitrate, no phosphate and I put meal at the Reef three or four times dayly.

My refugium is about 50 galons for a 200 galons reef. With DSB and plenty of macroalgae: chaetomorpha, caulerpa, halimeda and others.

I have very nice colors in my SPS (you can see at www.almontereef.blogspot.com). In fact I had some sexuals problems with macros, but a little of iron solve the problem.

I prefer refugium because this is more natural. I do not like ZEO because this is not natural, this is pure chemistry and I do not like it. ZEO put the corasl in the way of yonkies

Grettings and sorry about my bad English.

Muy bien dicho cono. I agree
Sump/fuge here with success- considered carbon and so forth but went the old fashion way.

Hockeydad · #12 05/19/2007, 09:19 AM

are you running ligthing 24/7 or alternating it opposite your display lighting.
Curious how many have a deeper sand bed. I run my lighting 11 hours a day and have very little sand and rock.
Thanks

jmluna · #13 05/19/2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hockeydad
are you running ligthing 24/7 or alternating it opposite your display lighting.
Curious how many have a deeper sand bed. I run my lighting 11 hours a day and have very little sand and rock.
Thanks

I am running 11 hours in both tanks. In fact the refugium is a "diferent marine aquarium" itself. But it is conected with the reef so it is running like a refugium in the way to export nitrate, phosphate, ...

By the way, I have only 640w T5 over 200 galons Reef and 162w T5 over 60 galons refugium

Sorry for my English but I can not explain it better. In my blog (www.almontereef.blogspot.com) there is a text column called "Filosofia" where I explain my philosofy. But this is in Spanish and I can not translate it

chrisd1009 · #14 05/19/2007, 04:25 PM

You know what I always find funny? Every time I see this topic come up, on any every site I look at,not just RC... the people who talk of success with SPS and fuges never post pics of their tanks.
They also talk about lower nutrients and when you ask them for numbers, you realize that they don't even test. They just parrot the newbie misinformation that since they have a fuge with cheato, their nutrients must be low. Total BS. If fuge users actually tested their water, most would find that their NO3 may be low, but the fuge has a minimal effect at best on PO4. Usually their PO4 drops within a couple of weeks of removing the fuge. I'm not afraid of NO3... however I'm out on PO4.
Most SPS tanks who rely on fuges for any type of export tend to be very drab. Brown acros with little coralline growth. As stated above by a couple others, 2 GFO reactors take up much less room and make a far greater impact.
For a fuge to really be effective, you would want one far larger than 10 gallons on a 72 gallon tank (the last 2 TOTM had fuges which were exceptionally large compared to their main display and by the set up of this months tank, he doesn't use his fuge for export).
Disclaimer: I'm not saying all tanks with fuges are bad. People who rely on fuges for nutrient export do tend to have sub par tanks. Those who use fuges as a fixture and still run heavy skimming, GFO and actually prune their cheato and keep their fuges clean tend to be the opposite.
here are some of my pics. pic 1 was when I had a fuge. My NO3 was low but my PO4 was through the roof. Pic 2 is about 6 months after removal PO4 0.02 on Hanna NO3 undetectable on seachem and salifert. pic 3 is a FTS. Sorry about the washout in that one. White balance?

jmluna · #15 05/19/2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisd1009
[B]You know what I always find funny? Every time I see this topic come up, on any every site I look at,not just RC... the people who talk of success with SPS and fuges never post pics of their tanks.

Pictures!!!

Great colors!!!

OK!!! Only seat in front of your computer and look at this!!!

To be continued ....

jmluna · #16 05/19/2007, 05:43 PM

Well I have more and more pictures....

This is my refugium

Perhaps with more nitrates and more phosphates there are more brown acroporas. Since I add the refugium I have more colorfull ones and also I have biggers ones.

Grettings and sorry about my bad English.

chrisd1009 · #17 05/19/2007, 06:00 PM

jmluna, I looked at your pics from the site you posted in the previous link. Outstanding tank. Again, I never said all fuge tanks are bad. I'm curious as to the size of your system, fuge and skimmer type.
If I were to get technical, what you have posted clearly isn't a fuge, but a separate reef tank with algae in it. I would not consider this to be a fraction of your success.
greetings to you too. My english sucks and it is my first language.

jmluna · #18 05/19/2007, 06:22 PM

In fact, my refugium is a refugium but is not a refugium

It is a refugium because the water pumps from the reef to the algae tank and from the algae tank to the sump. Of course only 20% of the returning water from the reef go to the refugium and the other 80% go to the sump.

It is not a refugium because I want a display tank with a diferent look. So I had build some think like an "amazonic tank" but with saltewater.

Usually I say I have to tanks:

- One reef display
- One algae lagoon display

But both ones are connected.

For example I add iron (very little adds) to solve sexual problems with macroalgaes. I do not like iron on my reef because the lost of colors but I go throught a compromise beteewn two tanks.

I hope you can understand to me.

DaddyJax · #19 05/19/2007, 07:17 PM

For me not all fuges are the same. I run a fuge and it is full of Cheato with a few rocks with no sand and I would not run a SPS dominated reef tank without a fuge. This is not to say that you have to have a fuge to be successful but it is to say that having a fuge and the ability to grow Macro doesn't mean you have brown acros. I don't run any form of GFO and I don't like them. That is my personal preference. There are so many different ways to maintain a succesful and colorful reef tanks. If you want to see some of my corals I will be glad to provide them.

Zoom · #20 05/19/2007, 08:56 PM

I build a new sump just so i can have a build in refuge .
Works like charm no sand no rocks just a tumbling cheato.
It is free no more $65 every two months for rowa .
I just have a 65W PS on reverse day light for 8 Hours.
No3 is 0.2. P04 0.1 both tested with colorimeter.

Laakmann · #21 05/19/2007, 09:24 PM

when i did have a refugium I think it hurt more than helped, cheato didnt grow that well at all and then stuff got stuck in the cheato and such, it just wasnt for me. I think adding a little more frequency or volume to water changes would do more for water quality than a fuge.

jmluna · #22 05/20/2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laakmann
when i did have a refugium I think it hurt more than helped, cheato didnt grow that well at all and then stuff got stuck in the cheato and such, it just wasnt for me. I think adding a little more frequency or volume to water changes would do more for water quality than a fuge.

Well, water changes are right, but it is impossible to achieve cero nitrate and phosphate with water changes.

I do not like artificial methods, so refugium is a good way to export unwanted nutrients out to the system.

Of course, refugium is more than a couple of chaeto. When think on a refugium, I think on chaeto, caulerpa, macroalgaes, DSB, and more.

RDSB and DSB are another methods to rise down nitrates and more, but i like more refugiums. I do not like solutions like ZEO or another chemicals, I prefer natural way, and ocasionally natural way is chepeerst and easyer than artificial way.

Serioussnaps · #23 05/20/2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hatfielj
Are refugiums good for sps tanks?
ABSOLUTELY!!
They are a very important form of natural filtration that really help keep the water as pristine as possible. The macroalgae like chaeto and such are very important for getting rid of phosphates and nitrates for your water and also help to stabilize your pH at night (if you run it on a reverse lighting schedule). The sand bed and extra live rock are also important in helping to further reduce nitrates and ammonia due to the large area for bacterial growth. The most successful tanks almost always have a healthy functioning refugium as part of their system.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. As for stablizing ph at night...i vote for kalkwasser. More than one way to skin a cat!

Serioussnaps · #24 05/20/2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hatfielj
Are refugiums good for sps tanks?
ABSOLUTELY!!
They are a very important form of natural filtration that really help keep the water as pristine as possible. The macroalgae like chaeto and such are very important for getting rid of phosphates and nitrates for your water and also help to stabilize your pH at night (if you run it on a reverse lighting schedule). The sand bed and extra live rock are also important in helping to further reduce nitrates and ammonia due to the large area for bacterial growth. The most successful tanks almost always have a healthy functioning refugium as part of their system.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. As for stablizing ph at night...i vote for kalkwasser. More than one way to skin a cat as usual. You just have to pick what you think is best for you and incorporate it into your current methodology.

Serioussnaps · #25 05/20/2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmluna
Pictures!!!

Great colors!!!

OK!!! Only seat in front of your computer and look at this!!!

To be continued ....

Unreal....please start a thread!