A warning about toxicity. A MUST read. - Page 13

ionredline0260 · #**301** 03/09/2007, 02:13 PM

I've handled my zooanthids bare handed for months, gotten a squished one IN A CUT. I'm not dead. If they where ALL really this toxic do you really think they would be LEGAL to sell in the united states? As I recall you just can't go buy a black mamba at a pet store, so why would you be able to buy killer corals?

billsreef · #**302** 03/09/2007, 03:04 PM

You can buy killer octopus

Coralmkr1 · #**303** 03/09/2007, 06:26 PM

The apparent danger of death from palythoa's, is extremely rare. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about loss of life, if you handle your corals. However, there is a risk of infection, from cuts, scrapes, etc, and getting bacteria from the rock, water, or corals. Be smart about it, and take precautions, ie: latex gloves, safety glasses, etc. Remember, if there were that many deadly palytoxin containing zooanthids, out there in the hobby, reefers would be dropping like flies.

Zestay · #**304** 03/14/2007, 11:55 AM

yesterday my neighbor gave me some palythoa's he collected himself so they may be a breed not available " in the trade " a khacki colored polyp with a light blue ring in them. didnt noticed i had a cut on my hand. my arm burned for an hour or so after handling them. all i can say is be careful.

chkra_hp · #**305** 03/16/2007, 12:20 AM

Is "Zoanthids" same thing as "Zoanthus"? I really like the way these coral look and want to get some for my tank but definitely a no no if it is poison of anykind. What about "PROTOPALYTHOA" they look alike? are they poison too? I dont understand why when these are poison and dangerous why they are stated that good for beginners?

Here is the link to the website that sell these on the internet. Can someone advise?
http://www.aquacon.com/polyps.html

chkra_hp · #**306** 03/16/2007, 11:37 PM

anyone?

chkra_hp · #**307** 03/16/2007, 11:37 PM

Double post sorry

chkra_hp · #**308** 03/16/2007, 11:37 PM

Double post sorry

zookeeper1 · #**309** 03/19/2007, 11:33 PM

I had the misfortune to experience a nasty reaction after inadvertant contact with some brown button polyps. I was drainging my tank to move it, and had carefully removed the coral covered rocks and placed them in a bucket, except for the bottom level of rocks that were covered with brown buttons.
While moving the tank (on the stand) with about 2" of water (and all the fish) left one of my nice big blue tangs decided to jump, and landed on a rock that was above the water line, and covered with polyups. My reaction was to reach in, and scoop him up and back into the water. Fish is OK, and I proceded to get the pump going and refill the tank as soon as it was relocated on the opposite side of a wall.
As soon as the water was back in the tank, and the rocks and corals back in place I immedietely washed my hands for about 10 minutes.

Soon after I started to have a metal taste in my mouth. Everything tasted different at dinner, and to tell you the truth I was having a nice trip. The only explanation is something toxic in my tank got in through a small cut on one of my fingers. It is certainly an experience that I would rather not repeat. I normally wear arm length gloves when working in the tank. This was the exception, as I had a suffocating fish that needed to get back in the water, and I reached in unprotected.

NanoCube-boy · #**310** 03/22/2007, 04:31 PM

Zoanthus, Zoanthids, Palys are the same thing... Just palys look differently, they are more larger I believe and the tenticles are different as well.

Icefire · #**311** 03/27/2007, 04:16 PM

Here's a response from Yuzuru Shimizu who made 2 study about Palytoxin:

Quote:

Dear Stephane:
Don't worry. You won't be hurt with the zoanthus in aquarium. Even if
it is toxic, enough toxin will not come into your body. The toxicity
of Palythoa varies. I collected a large amount in Puerto Rico with no
ill effect. However, it is always a good practice to wear rubber
gloves, because many marine organisms are cause of allergic reactions.
As to Ostereopsis, it produces a small amount of palytoxin analogues,
but it is not known if they are the source of palytoxin in Palythoa.
Again, you have to grow thousands of liters to get visible amounts of
them. We grew one time thousand of liters, but found very little
toxins.

Yuzuru Shimizu, Ph.D., D. Pharm. Sci. (Hon.)
Omar-Youngken Distinguished Chair Emeritus of Natural Product Chemistry
Professor Emeritus of Biomedical & Pharmaceutical Sciences,
College of Pharmacy, University of Rhode Island

NanoCube-boy · #**312** 03/28/2007, 01:28 AM

So even if I scrub my brush to clean off the aglaes?

bignick · #**313** 03/28/2007, 08:55 AM

I'm sorry but this thread is just too long to read from start to finish. All i want to know is If you keep a lot of Zoanthids can you keep other corals like SPS, LPS and other softies? So far i have about 30lbs of Rock that have zoanthids on them and my fish are fine and i have never experienced a reaction.

NanoCube-boy · #**314** 03/28/2007, 04:27 PM

Bignick, YES, you may keep other corals, it will not disturb other corals because zoanthids are pretty peaceful. I don't recommend YOU disturbing them, otherwise... you know.

bignick · #**315** 03/29/2007, 07:03 AM

Thanks NCB!

Sugar Magnolia · #**316** 03/29/2007, 07:31 AM

A member of our local reef club has had first hand experience with toxin vapors: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1083843

Wolverine · #**317** 03/31/2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
A member of our local reef club has had first hand experience with toxin vapors: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1083843

It's difficult to say for sure that the zoanthids are the cause there.

Dave

moespeaking · #**318** 04/12/2007, 09:06 PM

A friend of mines arm went numb almost for 6 hours after handling a blue palythoa colony. At work I notice a slight stinging sensation after handling certain corals but its not strong enough to keep me from my work.

cmb88 · #**319** 04/21/2007, 09:53 PM

i have been following this thread and the other under reef discussion..thought i would post here as well..mmm

firstly i have been following this thread since day one. I am so sorry fot yuor loss...I just wanted to put my thoughts down. I am a vet tech who has been in the field 8 yrs of animal emergencies. I have seen almost every intoxication in dogs that you can imagine...
IMO small dogs in particular are more suseptible to toxicity in what they eat. they are like little vacumes turn your back for a min and pow!! what did they eat?
I am also a molecular cellular biologist and i promise i will do more research and bring my zoos to the lab etc..I will let you know what i find..a lot of my peers travel around the world researching these types of corals etc..(lucky bastards lol)

I am not debating that there is a toxin, or that animals and some people (especially those with sensitive skin etc) can be harmed...but....

here we go...

When an owner comes into my hospital complaining of one syptom or what they think happened..99% of the time they either got into something else as well and or there are 4-5 other problems with their animal they were not aware of. This is why detailed histories are important.

My point is for all we know the dog was in the back yard ate rat bait 3 days before or did drink the water and got sick, or ate human food got salminela sp?, or went to the river three weeks ago ate a raw salmon and got toxicity (takes 2-3 weeks for symptoms)..or was older had renal failure to begin with, etc..was the dog vomiting? did he appear drunk? Walking around eyes blinking etc? What was the body temp?

I think we all need to be careful duhh wash your hands dont let kids or animals drink your tank water etc..but we do not need to become scared..I have a tank with all zoo's all kinds..I am a dirty girl who works in animal feces all day soo my cleanliness level is slightly altered lol, but i can tell you i have smoked after not washing my hands, sipped some water accidently siphoning, etc..If you get a rash etc..pull them out try again..

I am glad for all these threads etc..education is a good thing..lets just try to be level headed..

As a tech I wish i could pick your brain go through it all with you, and I wish the veterinarian would post some more info, but as a fellow animal lover and owner, I feel for your loss and hope you well!!

Thanks just my .02 cents!!

Eklikewhoa · #**320** 05/16/2007, 09:40 PM

Was wondering what is the poisonous stuff? The clear goo that comes out or the brown stuff after being mishandled?

I have handled my zoas bare handed and the only thing that bothers the cuts is the salt water.

I did drop a zoa once and after putting it in the tank it released a thick brown goo which I did not touch.

joedirt54 · #**321** 05/31/2007, 01:31 AM

I use regular yellow rubber gloves or latex gloves each and every time I handle my corals...not to keep from killing myself, but to limit the toxins I might transmit to my corals from my hands...Do you really think zoas that could kill or hurt humans from casual contact would be sold at your local LFS?

I have touched many a brown button polyp, only to come away with a sticky feeling on my fingers...I chew snuff and would have killed myself by now if they were that toxic.

Dirt

DgenR8 · #**322** 05/31/2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joedirt54
.Do you really think zoas that could kill or hurt humans from casual contact would be sold at your local LFS?

Dirt

Lionfish, Rabbitfish, Haddoni Anemones, Urchins, even blue ring Octopus. Nah, your LFS couldn't possibly sell Zoanthids that could hurt or even kill you........

Mother Yoda · #**323** 07/11/2007, 11:37 AM

Say I have been reading about this stuff yesterday but everywhere I looked I could not find anything about what types of corals on the market that contain the stuff. Is it just zoanthids in general that contain the poison or is it a particular type that has it. Is their some list that contains a list of corals that has it. It would be preferable to have all the common generic names listed just because to prevent confusion about the various corals.

JackJack7 · #**324** 07/31/2007, 02:13 PM

I remember being told by a guy working at my lfs, that zoanthids toxins as as toxic as the blue ring octopus toxin...

Runfrumu · #**325** 09/02/2007, 05:00 PM

Taken from the magazine "Coral", is an article written by Daniel Knop.

In it he states "Aoanthids aren't very popular with German reef aquarist, in part, because of their very nature---- after all, SOME OF THE SPECIES produce one of the most toxic posions known: Palytoxin."

He goes on to state that it is the Proopalythoa species that contains it, he also goes on to state some of the characteristic's of the species that do contain it such as the ability of the species to contract to an almost flat sheet and, simultaineously relase the toxin and also their fast propagation rate and how it also would cause most of his fish to jump out of the water whenever the toxin was released and how it killed many of the coral's in his aquarium. He says even the most inexperienced aquarist can tell the difference.

So everyone can calm down, and not throw out their Zonanthids, I'm pretty sure none of these species would make it to your local fish store, and if they did, I'm sure many of you would be dead by now and this thread wouldnt be 13 pages nor would their be a subforum deadicated to Zoanthids.

This is sort of like the Ricin thing, where it is made from Castor beans, but eating Castor bean's isnt going to kill you.