Lobophyllia wasting away

[Randall_James]

- The type of coral
Lobophyllia
- How long you have had the coral
3 weeks
- How long it has been having problems
since day 1
- The rate at which the problem is occurring/spreading
about 25% affected now
- Any changes to the tank - equipment, additives, new livestock, etc.
Only the addition of this coral
- How long the tank has been set up
2+ years but was moved about 6 months ago
- size of the tank ( gallons or liters)
75G
- nearby corals
4-12" green mushroom, pink pulsing Xenia
12-24" frogspawn(18" and well out of reach)Asst SPS and a T.Maxima clam

Water quality:
- pH (8.20-8.4)kalk dosed at lights out to maintain
- temperature (82-84 during summer)(75-77 winter/current)
- salinity (1.026)
- nitrate (ND)
- phosphate (ND)
- alkalinity (110 kh)
Lighing 2X175 MH 2X54 pure actinic 2X36 PC 1X400 MH (currently not running at all)
Location is floor of tank in substrate

The coral is in serious recession. It appeared only at the edges that may have been banged in shipping (no more online coral purchases for me). The tissue decay has isolated itself to 1 of the 3 lobes (2 main lobes and a smallish 1" lobe) The lobe in the middle is the affected lobe. The tissue appears to by dying off exposing the skeleton beneath.

The coral responds to feeding (ground mysis, cyclopeze,DT's) just fine including the affected region. (have been target feeding every 3rd day)
I have watched for any parasite problem but see none. The other inhabitants in tank are:
FoxFace (disinterested in the item except to swipe leftover mysis)
Banded Goby
Paired Maroons

At the current rate, the lobe will be denuded of tissue in about 2 weeks if it does not change rate. I would like to save this thing if possible and if not, should I detach the 1 intact lobe? (is a single 1" round lobe), Any treatments that will not just make matters worse?
This is the condition of the coral as recieved from the Vendor(RC Sponsor) The skeleton protruding from all around the perimiter is gone but the middle lobe has never recovered and is the one going away.



and today:





Thanks.

[Randall_James]

Well I hope this thing lasts until the 16th or so.....

[sihaya]

DO you think it was sick when you got it? How long was it in the store when you bought it?

[sihaya]

Wait... is that a knobby leather near it? Did you know that *some* leathers (Sinularia and Lobophytum especially, sometimes Sarcophyton) can kill stonies (especially large polyped stonies)? Do you have an Lobophytum or Sinularia in the tank anywhere near the brain? I don't know exactly how close they have to be though.

[Randall_James]

There is 1 Sinularia but it is at least 12" away, the first photo is the item fresh out of acclimation from the online vendor. It looked just terrible and already had some recession going on. I just propped it up against the rock to photograph it. The second image is 2 weeks post. Sinularia is about 12" away.

[sihaya]

Sinularia are extremely toxic. I think SOME species can't even be in the same tank as stony corals.

But I'm no expert. My only qualification is that I have a way of remembering everything I read. And I've read Mr. Borneman's book like 3 times... and it says in there that Sinularia are highly toxic to stony corals (especially to large polyped stonies) and they don't necessarily need to be close to the stony to kill it.

[masterswimmer]

sihaya brings up a very valid point. I haven't experienced anything like it, but I have heard these concerns mentioned.

I had a very very similar problem with the shipping of my Lobo from an online vendor also. I was just a bit more fortunate because my tissue recession was on the perimeter. It has been about 8 months now and it is finally at the point where it is no longer noticeable. Recovery is imminent now. Finally.

You might want to do a Reefdip on that one. It might help. Seachem sells a product called ReefDip. It appears that it does contain iodine. That might help although I did not do it that way.

GL,
Russ

[Randall_James]

Well you can see from the image that the item was not in very happy spirits when I got it.

If the Sinularia needs to go that is not an issue, I have another tank I that I can put it in.

I will see about the dip. If it is an iodine base, can I use lugols?

[masterswimmer]

If it is an iodine base, can I use lugols?

I would if you've got some.

Russ

[cmcgehee01]

I had a similar problem with my open brain. I took it out & cut the damaged part of the lobe away cuttint down into the skeleton. I placed it back in the same place & in a matter of two weeks it had healed & regrown the tissue. Very healthly now. Good luck.

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
If it is an iodine base, can I use lugols?

I would if you've got some.

Russ

Concentration?

[masterswimmer]

That's the problem, I've never used Lugols. I would ask in the reef chemistry forum, Randy Holmes-Farley.

GL,
Russ

[Randall_James]

Ok not much info to find on the concentration issue. The most authoritative I could find said up to 1oz of Lugols to a gallon of water. I used that ratio and gave my ailing Lobo a 3 minute dip.

Assorted mysis, amphipods and a couple mini brittle stars lasted all of about 15 seconds. I then did a good freshwater (ro/di) rinse on the guy to remove the iodine loaded water.

After he went back into the tank a single worm gave up the ghost in a rather dramatic fashion and not sure if he was a problem worm or just an unfortunate scavenger.

Lobo was not a happy camper for some time and slimed pretty hard and then extended his sweepers like he had a feeding response. (did not feed him)

Tonight I will target feed him and see how he looks.

[masterswimmer]

Sounds great. Good luck.

Russ

[MCsaxmaster]

I think allelopathy may be an issue here. Here's what I'd try:

Set up a little tank (ten gallon or so) as temporary housing. Put in a powerhead and a heater. Place a piece of liverock or two in the tank without any other corals on it along with the coral in question. Use strictly fresh-mixed water in this tank (not water from the main tank. Light it with a PC if you have one, or just a shoplight will work for a bit. Change out a few gallons of water every couple of days and feed the coral as possible. I bet you'll see a lot of improvement in this tank.

It looks like there are a many soft corals and mushroom polyps in the tank. That could certainly give this coral a hard time.

Good luck,

Chris

[Randall_James]

can do

[outy]

man you have it all stress from shipping, softy's and a tank move in 6 months i wish you luck

i dont know your translation for alk in dkh hows your Ca

my lobo started on its stn on its outside edge and when i saw that i freaked after having it 3 years and did major water changes weekly and it came back no problem. I think in your case you have ftn anyway like MC says fresh perfect water lower lights, feeding may be your only hope. I just hope the stress of moving him again doesnt make it worse. I think i would do major water changes add more carbon if used to help with with chemical warfair so it doesnt stress more. You have allot of lobo left and after recovery you can turn it around and it will still show nice.

[Randall_James]

Well water changes really are not an issue on my tanks, on the low side they get 25% weekly and normally closer to 50%.

The lobo has a tank to itself with a few SPS at this point and it is just wait and see now.

I think it was in trouble when I got it and if in fact the Sinularia was an issue, well just made bad even worse.

[masterswimmer]

Randall, be aware that it took my Lobo about 6 - 8 months before it healed from its shipping damage. Looked like yours does now.

[sihaya]

Yeah, but his is getting worse... there's a big decline from the first photo to the second it seems.

[binski]

Had the exact same issue with my Red Lobo. Did the lugol's dip and was then warned by Borneman that I may have made the problem worse! I too have a Sinularia and Sarcophyton in the tank but didn't think these were the culprits. Mine lost at least 2 of 5 polyps before we transferred it to a friends QT to attempt recovery. Don't know its current status. Good luck!

Binski

[Randall_James]

Well at the rate it was wasting away, I felt that the waiting until the 16th was pretty much an end of the road scenario at the rate the tissue was dying off.

I pulled ALL the softies from that tank and moved them to one of my others (except the mushrooms) put about 5 dropper loads of Lugols in a pint of water, did a 3 minute dip (killed off a number of hitchikers) and reset the Lobo back in the tank a different spot.

Tissue die off seems arrested (at least in the last 48 hours) I do have it under normal lighting and am not sure if it should be shaded for now or not but figured that maybe it needed the energy of the light to help recover. Seems to be doing "OK" at this point.

[EricHugo]

Sorry I'm so late on this one. Glad to see you made progress. I would suggest reduced light for this particular coral at least for now. All the advice you needed has been given, including the possibility of the Sinularia and other soft corals which I have also noted to have pretty serious effects on mussids like this one.

[Randall_James]

Thought I would update this on about day 11 after iodine bath:

Note at the black arrow that the tissue has changed consistency. It has taken on something of a "meaty" appearance over the "shredded" look it had as the tissue necrosis was in full swing. Maybe this piece has turned the corner? I have never had an item get this bad that did not just die so am unsure if this is good or not.

[masterswimmer]

Nice to see. Just keep monitoring it. Seems you might have turned a corner.

Good luck,
Russ