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#2
11/01/2004, 09:53 PM
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after your freshwater cure, I would place it in saltwater for about a week. test for pH changes. if there are none, it is safe for your tank.
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I'm no addict, addicts go to meetings....wait does CIMA count? |
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#4
11/02/2004, 11:42 AM
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for the rocks i used a lot more cement than aragonite, there's two larger sculptures. |
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#5
11/03/2004, 08:46 PM
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jazer80
I do not know what causes it, nor have I experienced it myself, but some have reported a "rebound" effect when placing "cured" rock in saltwater. I'm guessing this is what your asking about? Maybe the chemistry guru guys could explain the potential reaction and why it happens to some and not others.
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Benjamin |
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#6
11/04/2004, 04:12 PM
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who are you referring to, and where could i find them? sometimes i find people recommending things that are more conjecture than fact, so if someone recommends to cure in saltwater before hand, i want to know that it is necessary to, because i have two giant tubs holding these rocks, easily in the 80 gallon range altogether, so i don't want to waste 80 gallons worth of salt on an idea that doesn't have any real merit
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#7
11/04/2004, 04:22 PM
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jazer80
I do not do a saltwater cure for my rocks so I can say that for me it isn't required and I would question it's merit as well though I have no way to prove it either way. As for whom says such things, I did not keep any list nor bookmarks, but have ran into it on occasion. A search of the web should yield some results if you really want to hunt them down.
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Benjamin |
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#9
11/04/2004, 11:12 PM
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not to hijack the thread, but... just made some frag plugs today and was wondering how long do I let them dry before putting them in water to cure? They are sitting outside in paper dixie cups right now.
TIA |
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#11
11/05/2004, 07:25 AM
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As for the saltwater cure, lok at the GARF site. They have several pages on curing aragocrete. I had mine cured in fresh water first and it stopped leaching then upon addind salt I did notice a slight rebound. I used rock salt and epsom salts.
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It's my motorcycle, not my location. |
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#12
11/05/2004, 09:05 AM
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Can you guys post your mixtures....I made some a long time ago, but can remember the mixture. I'd like to try and through another batch together.
For what it's worth I cured mine in FW for about 2 months, then I put it in my q-tank for a while. Wether that helped or not, I can't say. I can say that all the rock I made seemed to have a nice algae bloom on it for about a month. |
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#13
11/05/2004, 09:34 AM
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Scribe,
Since Aragonite is prohibitively expensive, I've opted to instead use crushed oyster shells. The recipe I use which seems to result in pretty strong and porous rocks (filled a "bowl shaped" rock up with water and it all ran out through the rock) is: 1 part water 1 part Type-10 white portland cement (only type I could find locally) ($18 CDN for an 80LB bag) 1 part sugar-size silica playsand (like I said, aragonite is pricey where I am) ($4 CDN for a 50LB bag) 4 parts crushed oyster shells (available from a farm feed supply store; this cost me $8 CDN for a 50LB bag) I like the texture the oyster shells adds:  This rock has a very brown hue to it from the silica playsand. For comparison, the rock on the right in this pic was made with only oyster shells; no play sand:  If I had access to cheap aragonite I'd simply use that instead of the play sand. Hope this helps, Tyler |
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#14
11/05/2004, 02:52 PM
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When curing in fresh water, do not look for "no change" in pH for the final test. Look for the PH not rising above a pH of ~8.6. Since many fresh water sources have a pH in the 7 range and aragocrete is made up of calcium based material that starts dissolving belows 7.8 the pH of the fresh water will increase...
I would recommend using crushed coral if at all possible. If you decide to use oyster shells, clean them very VERY well and then clean them again before making the rock. Then pray they came from a good, clean source. Thanks, Scott
__________________
President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society A fair and biased reef hobbyist. "If I were going to set up a tank, and I am going to make some people mad here, I would use VHOs" Dana Riddle 3/2/2007 |
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#15
11/05/2004, 03:06 PM
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As for cleaning them, in what regard? Are you thinking to put them in a seive and rinse them off before using? I would lose a lot of the fine "oyster dust" in the shells if I did this. I realize there could be leftover organics (like oyster tissue, etc) in there, which is why I'm going to cure my rocks in around 6 months. Some people use pasta which they let rot out, so I figure there shouldn't be that much of a difference. I am using crushed oysters that are sold as chicken feed if that makes a diff; it's not sold as a landscaping material or anything like that. Assumably if chickens can eat it it won't have too much harmful stuff in it. Later, Tyler |
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#16
11/05/2004, 03:46 PM
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Tyler,
The chicken feed variety is the kind I would be the most concerned about. I would not want the "oyster dust" since it is where much of the organics would be therefore I would clean and clean and clean some more. This way hopefully all organics are washed away. From what I understand, the oster shells that are sold for chicken feed are in many cases not the ones that are for human consumption. Many times the whole oyster is ground up. Also the areas where they are collected is not the cleanest as in polution... I know a lot of people that have used them in their reef tanks without any problems. I personally would not want to risk it so I stick with the crushed coral. Thanks, Scott
__________________
President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society A fair and biased reef hobbyist. "If I were going to set up a tank, and I am going to make some people mad here, I would use VHOs" Dana Riddle 3/2/2007 |
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#17
11/05/2004, 03:55 PM
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I wish that I could obtain aragonite sand and crushed coral readily in my area. However, being in the prairies makes it prohibitively costly to get stuff here. However, that said, I am going to clean and cure the rocks as best I can before I use them. Helk, some people use asphalt in their tanks as rocks; I don't even want to imagine the nasties in there! Thanks for the advice on rinsing though; I'm going to do that in all future batches! Thanks, Tyler |
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#19
11/05/2004, 11:29 PM
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so can you use the silica playsand? I thougt it had to be aragonite sand. I just used crushed coral aragonite and cement for my plugs, nice texture but I would have liked to had some sand in there as well.
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#20
11/05/2004, 11:40 PM
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Tyler |
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#21
11/06/2004, 12:02 AM
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 Some say it causes diatom blooms, etc, etc, but after my reading I came across many threads where Dr. Shimek suggests using silica based sand. I personally have no problem with using silica based sand in my tank. From what I've read, my understanding is that the aragonite will provide a small amount of calcium buffering capability to the tank, but certainly not enough to worry about using only silica sand. Personally I'm using the silica sand mixed in my rocks; I like the brown color of the rocks; and besides it is going to be (hopefully) covered with coraline eventually anyways. I have 210lbs of aragonite I bought from a local reefer who had extra; I'll be using this to form the sand bed in my display tank. It's a very pure white sand; I like the color of it compared to the silica. To sum it up, I think it's personal choice. In the rock, I think it looks great. It's ultra-cheap where I am and as a result I'm making my rock at a cost of around $0.60 per pound when all is said and done.. Tyler |
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#22
11/06/2004, 12:30 AM
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Tyler
thanks Im just using it to make frag plugs anyway and they came out soo gray. but really it was more of a texture thing. so are you using the eg. 5-1 ratio for the total amount of sand/shells to cement? In my tank my sand bed is arag sand and cc FWIW ok will have to try the silica mix next time! |
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#23
11/06/2004, 03:46 PM
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I agree though, I find with the sand in the mix the rocks have a much more natural texture. Yes, I'm using the ratio of 5-1 for total aggregate (Sand/Shells) to the portland. In my case, of the 5 parts aggregate, I do 1 part sand, and 4 parts crushed oyster. Tyler |
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#24
11/06/2004, 11:09 PM
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I found a bag of white yesterday at HD but I still have the huge other one sooo. If I erver run out of the regular I will spring for the white. thanks for the help- might have to go raid the kiddos sand stash! :-) (I have some still in bags) Do you think it still takes as long to cure using more aragonite? Im still planning on at least 4 weeks. just impatient!
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#25
11/06/2004, 11:32 PM
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Using a lower ratio of cement to aggregate may reduce the pH faster but will also be likely to weaken the rock. Luckily here in Idaho we can get the Riverside White cement so we don't need to worry about the ph. 28 days and in the tank it goes... Thanks, Scott
__________________
President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society A fair and biased reef hobbyist. "If I were going to set up a tank, and I am going to make some people mad here, I would use VHOs" Dana Riddle 3/2/2007 |
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