lawn irrigation manifold

chrismunn · #1 12/03/2007, 09:00 PM

has anybody [you or a friend] ever used, or heard of someone using electronic valves from a sprinkler system or irrigation manifold in your system. they normally come in like 3/4" or 1" fpt and have a solenoid that you would normally wire up to a timer on a 12v power supply.
i want to hook up a resivior to a salt mixing tank, to a sump using either pumps or gravity, and a couple of these electro valves.
how long do you think one of these valves will last in salt water? i cant imagine it would last as long as if you were using it in fresh water, but i think it will be fine. ill just have to keep an eye on things i suppose?
and no im not asking if i should use them, or if it would be ok to use them, cuz i am. my mind is already made up. i just wanted some friendly input...

hansmatt · #2 12/03/2007, 09:34 PM

I had wondered the same. I decided against it as there seems a high likelyhood of metals in construction, thus leaching into water especially as it is not flowing...just my two cents.

chrismunn · #3 12/03/2007, 09:55 PM

well i think, the only metal that would make contact with the water is this little 3\16" diameter metal drum on the solenoid, but that would be the like with any float switch \ solenoid top off system employed in any of our tanks right?
i would agree with the likleyhood, but i wouldnt rank it too high of a concern really. the valve is a regular pvc valve, with a solenoid on top. i doubt it would do much, if any damage at all. i do understand concern stemming from using a construction, grade valve on a fish tank, but really, fish grade valves are the same thing in a different package, i would imagine?
maybe a plummber could chime in on this one?

chrismunn · #4 12/04/2007, 07:31 PM

nobody has ever used one of these on a salt water application before?

H20ENG · #5 12/04/2007, 08:58 PM

The sprinkler valves will probably hold up just fine, as there is a small SS screw holding the diaphram.

The problem is they are a pilot operated valve, meaning they use the line pressure to actuate the valve. Our systems are low pressure, and they generally need about 10psi differential pressure across the valve to open them.

The 10psi figure is from looking at several different brands of valves. Not sure if you could cut the spring, or modify the valve to operate on less pressure. They work great for their intended application, line pressure at your house. People do use them for running their RO/DI systems, since that application is line pressure.

You could get one on sale for $10 and play with it. let us know.

chrismunn · #6 12/04/2007, 10:11 PM

well i was looking at them in home depot the other day. brand new they're only $10.oo, and i had no idea that they operate off of pressure. i expect to hook a mag9.5 the the valve, but thats not a pressure pump so i might be set back here??? i guess ill just have to buy one and tear it apart to see what happens? thanks for the input boss. and by the way, i moved from vacaville 1.5 years ago.

H20ENG · #7 12/06/2007, 12:17 AM

Try pulling the spring if any, it may help.
We went to San Antonio last year. I enjoyed it down there

chrismunn · #8 12/08/2007, 05:22 PM

yeah, san antonio is pretty awsome. back in cowtown CA (vacaville) i lived at the corner of mason and e. monte vista. at lincoln corner apts.
anyways, i went and bought a 3\4" valve with a power supply and wired it up with a switch to test out my idea. i hooked the valve to a mag 7 pump, and it worked out. but it didnt work aS well as i hoped for. the valve opened and closed promptly, but the flow allowed throught the valve is meager. with the mag7 i can fil a 5g bucket about 4 or 5 times as fast as i can with the house hose. with the mag7 pushing through the valve i can only fill the bucket at about half the rate of my house hose. i foresee burning up alot of pumps with this valve.
after i ran my test i realized that there really is no reason to be using a valve like this, not for any reason really! i was just getting equipment happy when i thought of adding electronic valves to the system. but ther's no need!
here's some video
here is the valve in action with the mag7
******* width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://img.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v231/chrismunn/electrovalve.flv">

and here is the mag7 by itself
******* width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://img.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v231/chrismunn/mag7.flv">

chrismunn · #9 12/08/2007, 05:25 PM

oops, no video.
mag7 no valve

mag7 with valve

chrismunn · #10 12/09/2007, 10:43 AM

i guess nobody really cares huh?

dzeadow · #11 12/09/2007, 12:56 PM

You know, if it worked, it'd be a nice cheap way to do a closed loop system. I think it'd be better than the SCWD as far as flow and not as expensive as the squirt/Oceans motions. Problem is, as you showed, the flow stinks...

chrismunn · #12 12/09/2007, 02:35 PM

well you know what, there is an internal spring that depresses a diaphram, keeping water from flowing bakwards through the valve, and when i took it out, it increased the flow by about 3x...
while that is a little better, it still cuts the mag7's output by more than half, which isnt exactly desirable. also if your actually trying to fully close the valve without using the spring, it wont work. without using the spring, the closed valve still allowes a small trickle of water through.

how exactly could you use it asa wave maker on a closed loop though? i was thinking that you could tee the return, and on one end of the tee you could have the valve on a time to open and close every so often, and have the other end of the tee with nothing, but then there would be nothing to stop water from going through the always open end even when the valve is open. that means you would need two valves, and at $10.oo a piece, i dont think the price would be worth it when compared to a SCWD... but thats only if the valves were even worthy of this type of application, which ive proved they arent. oh well.
i found some really awsome solenoid valves on some website that i cant remember the name of, but the valves are like $400.oo +... like i would ever need it!

chrismunn · #13 12/09/2007, 03:03 PM

so i think ive come to the conclusion that the electro valve is not needed, but rather pumps with switches. so intead of using a single worthless electro valve, i will buy a dj power strip to power all my different pumps. some where here on RC a couple of years back, i read about some body using a dj power box of some sort, where all the different power outlets on the box had thier own independant switch to controll each outlet.
for example;
fresh water resivoir to salt mixing tank pump plugs into outlet #1... when i want to transfer water to my salt mixing tank from my fresh water resivoir, i just hit the switch that controlls outlet #1, which turns on the pump, pushing fresh water into the salt tank.
simple enough, no valves needed depending on how i run the plumbing, worst case scenario, i might have to throw a check valve somewhere in the mix. but if i plumb it right, that wont even be neccassary... now i just need to find one of thoes dj power boxes. with my luck thier going to be mucho denaro$$$!

chrismunn · #14 12/09/2007, 03:13 PM

well here is what im talking about, and apperently im talking to myself. thats kind of a shame because this stuff is pretty cool, and actually very cheap! here's the link

http://www.123dj.com/lighting/controllers/pd8.html

cpl40475 · #15 12/09/2007, 03:40 PM

ive seen a few ppl using those recently in there build threads. Im looking into a dj strip myself for my 180 i hope it works out.

dzeadow · #16 12/09/2007, 03:52 PM

All kinds of people use American DJ's for power strips, also The Chauvette (I don't know how it's spelled) is another popular one.

chrismunn · #17 12/09/2007, 03:52 PM

im sure it will work out great if you have a good use for it. the biggest problem i could foresee while using one of these, is trying to have the switch box in an easily accessible location, but not being able to because the cords you have plugged into it arent long enough to reach the location you want to put the box.
for example;
lets say you want to attach a pump thats in the sump, to a drain, and you want to plug that pump into the power control box. well there is 3' of power cord coming off the pump, but the power control box is 5' away from the location of the pump. what do you do, move the control box to an undesired location, or use an extention cord?

H20ENG · #18 12/10/2007, 07:52 PM

You could open the dj strip and extend the wires to outlet boxes. A couple people have added longer cords to them. I think the solenoid valves are better left to supplying water to the RO unit or the grass

RobbyG · #19 12/10/2007, 08:01 PM

I use one of these on a FW water refill for my homes water tank.
They are not very reliable and tend to get stuck open or closed after a period of time. Mine simply got caked with chlorine deposits and rust inside the solenoid shaft after approx 6 months.

I would hate to think what salt water would do to the Metal shaft inside the solenoid, it will get wet and it will rust and it will rust tightly against the cylinder. IMO don't use this thing for SW, it may even rust through and create an electrical short.

gojicraig · #20 12/11/2007, 07:57 AM

Everyone has commented on the valve and such as a possible concern. What about the plastic? Is it going to be drinking quality, or over time leach toxins into the water? Does anyone know? I've also thought about this issue with our storage tanks(read that Garbage cans!)

chrismunn · #21 12/14/2007, 08:17 PM

H20ENG, i hAve to agree with leaving the valves where they belong. the $30.oo i wasted on that thing with pipe and a power supply could have bought me an SCWD. and with the dj strip, can you just open it up and extend wires, or is everything soldered into a chip board?

RobbyG, i also agree, im sure that in saltwater, thoes metal cylinders will be gone in no time flat! and im sure that rust in the tank wont do any good either.

gojicraig, aside from the rust, i wouldnt be too concerned with anything leaching from the plastic valve body. i think its just pvc? i could be hugly wrong tho, i tend to be wrong MOST of the time! i do know that when i worked in a resturaunt, we had "food grade" cans rather than regular trash bins for storing food in. ive also heard numerous times here on RC about using only "food grade" storage containers for water holding tanks...

H20ENG · #22 12/14/2007, 10:31 PM

Chris,
The DJ strips I've seen use spade terminals. You can add the same terminals to your longer cord ends and plug them in.

chrismunn · #23 12/15/2007, 06:13 PM

what is a spaid terminal. is that the flat end connector on the board, with the wire having the sleeve that fits over it?

H20ENG · #24 12/17/2007, 02:12 AM

Yup

There was a thread recently where I saw someone mod the DJ strips. I'll try to find it for you.

H20ENG · #25 12/17/2007, 02:21 AM

Here you go

Dandy7200 did a great job modding his.

Looks like he put longer INput cords on the switches, so they could all be powered seperately. His Aquacontroller switches them on and off, but this way he has clean, manual override switches.

If you wanted to extend the outlets, just use the female end of the cords,and wire them to the existing outlet in the DJ strip. You could also wire them to regular wall type outlets, if you wanted those instead of cord ends. (maybe cheaper too.)

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...1#post10690021