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  #26  
Old 01/31/2005, 11:26 AM
Loralie Loralie is offline
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I am running a T-1000 Turbofloter protien skimmmer, 2 dolphin 2000 pumps on a 125 gal. I have a 110 gallon Fuge and 175 lbs of live rock with 240 lbs of live sand and 2 gallons of mineral mud. I run 3 large powerheads for movement as well as 8 ft of spraybar. My Fuge has VHO lighting as well as my 125. I currently stock about 35 fishes.
I did over a year researching the types. Many of these fish are small Gobies. I do feed live brine and Phyto as well as 3 types of flake, and 7 types of frozen.
My water perameters haven't changed in a year and everyone seems to be happy. I chose the rock carefully to provide many holes and overhangs. Also added 5 lbs of assorted shell and rock pieces for the 5 jawfish in residence. They are constantly burrowing, and the abandoned holes make great homes for the firefish and rainsford goby. Also I do some of the fishes in my Fuge. The only large fish I have are 2 Tangs and 2 Anthias. Eveyone else is under 4 inches. This does seem to be working quite well, however if someone became uhappy or unrully they would be given a home in my 150 fish only tank.
  #27  
Old 01/31/2005, 02:52 PM
Shoestring Reefer Shoestring Reefer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnsteph10
Do the right thing and get rid of the 3 tangs.
What's needed here is a bigger tank, not fewer fish.
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  #28  
Old 02/02/2005, 01:25 PM
chris232 chris232 is offline
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In a 92 corner bow w/ 20 gal. sump, 140 lbs of rock, I have the following

hippo
chevron
2 chromis
2 clowns
flame angle
coral beauty
six line
fairy
purple fire
royal gramma
pseudochromis

all doing very well I might add.

In my 75 bow FOWL I plan to put

1 niger
1 blue throat
1 porcupine puffer
1 harlequin
1 eel
  #29  
Old 02/02/2005, 07:51 PM
ChaosReefer ChaosReefer is offline
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juthunter, cut the damsels and chromis, trust me youll regret it....
the yellow tang and the kole tang may show agression towards each other, everything else looks fine
  #30  
Old 02/03/2005, 08:18 AM
Shoestring Reefer Shoestring Reefer is offline
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ChaosReefer-why do you recommend he get rid of the chromis?
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  #31  
Old 02/03/2005, 03:50 PM
ChaosReefer ChaosReefer is offline
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oh sorry i thought i typed get the chromis
  #32  
Old 02/03/2005, 09:30 PM
dcombs44 dcombs44 is offline
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i have a 29 gallon with a tomato clown, yellow clown goby, 6 line wrasse, and a sailfin tang on the way, which i was told the sailfin should be fine for some time (it is only about an inch and a half in size) i realize if it decides to grow it will have to go, but what does everybody think?
  #33  
Old 02/03/2005, 09:51 PM
VolitanLioness VolitanLioness is offline
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Quote:
i realize if it decides to grow
I am pretty sure it will decide to grow and grow quite fast, I am sure it needs more space and a 29g will not be enough room for this fish to swim.
  #34  
Old 02/05/2005, 07:21 PM
Broodingwolf Broodingwolf is offline
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this thread belongs in the irresponsible reefkeeping section :P

"if it decides to grow" What a sad sad notion.

My analogy of keeping fish in cramped or otherwise unsuitable sized aquariums is the dog chained on a 2 foot length of chain to a doghouse. Sure the dog will survive and people do that all the time, sadly enough. However the dog is miserable, and forced to live in conditions that shorten its life. Its defintely not the right thing to do to a life that is completely in your hands... do unto others etc etc.

Just my 2 cents.
  #35  
Old 02/05/2005, 10:22 PM
The Punisher The Punisher is offline
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Did someone really just say "if it decides to grow"?! Wow!
I really don't think the fish has a say in the matter.
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  #36  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:38 PM
ChaosReefer ChaosReefer is offline
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btw if u really wanna see overstocked check this out

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showg...1&si=theshaman
  #37  
Old 02/10/2005, 03:24 PM
Ritten Ritten is offline
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Sometimes I wonder if people think "it works" because the fish are not dying or diseased....... yet.... but are they happy in their environment? Do they have room to make their own territories, which I believe they need? That is what is important to me, JMHO.
  #38  
Old 02/12/2005, 12:15 AM
blstravler blstravler is offline
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So at what point does "it working" become okay?

I agree with what you are saying but often things that "work" for a long period of time become theory and or experiences that others start to copy.
  #39  
Old 02/13/2005, 03:14 PM
chrismunn chrismunn is offline
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yeah i made the mistake of stocking a 10g with a frogspawn, a hammer, a xenia, button polyps, mushrooms, a rock anemone, a flame scallop, a brittle star, a coral banded shrimp, a lawnmower blenny, a purple dottyback, and really dumbly, a regal blue tang...believe it or not, its all doing great, but i did lose the scallop while moving a few weeks ago. what a shame.
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  #40  
Old 02/13/2005, 04:33 PM
Ritten Ritten is offline
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I think what I was trying to say was that it can "work" but is that the environment you want for your fish long term? In my case, I hope to have my fish for the long haul. Again, JMHO.
  #41  
Old 02/13/2005, 07:30 PM
blstravler blstravler is offline
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Couldn't agree more. After having way to many reefs over the years when I started this tank years ago I had a list of fish that I wanted. Since adding the black tang I completed my list and I haven't added anything in about 18 months. Only problem I had was a trio of tricolor anthias that hunted down and killed green chromis. Getting them out of the tank was a PITA but now I have 2 green chromis : )
  #42  
Old 02/15/2005, 12:27 AM
Dejan Dejan is offline
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being alive is not necessarily an indication of success. it is about quality of life- and what quality of life can you hope to offer wild caught fish in a tiny glass box? where is the sense of responsibility to provide the best possible conditions for livestock?
  #43  
Old 02/15/2005, 10:11 PM
blstravler blstravler is offline
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So are you telling me I'm not a responsible reef keeper?
  #44  
Old 02/16/2005, 12:07 AM
selgado selgado is offline
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Anything smaller than the ocean is a lower quality of life for our beloved pets. Don't kid yourself. As big as you think your tank is it is inadequate compared to most of our fish's natural environments.
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  #45  
Old 02/16/2005, 07:59 AM
dendronepthya dendronepthya is offline
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Quote:
As big as you think your tank is it is inadequate compared to most of our fish's natural environments.
While I agree with the above statement, what value is it? Clearly nobody in this thread is deciding to go fishless as a result. If this were a bright-line standard, there would be no question that EVERYONE that owned a fish is amoral and needs to get rid of the fish they own.
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  #46  
Old 02/16/2005, 05:39 PM
selgado selgado is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dendronepthya
While I agree with the above statement, what value is it? Clearly nobody in this thread is deciding to go fishless as a result. If this were a bright-line standard, there would be no question that EVERYONE that owned a fish is amoral and needs to get rid of the fish they own.
I hear people say all the time "that fish must have xx gallon tank to be happy." How do you know? Did the fish sit on the edge of its tank and tell you this? I want to get at the very heart of what deciding factors we use to determine weather an organism is happy. Is it activity in the tank? Is it eating habits? Is it general appearance? Or is it simply weather the organism lives or dies? Do you gaze into your fish's eyes? Sign language? What if you have a totally overstocked tank in which all the fish are active, eating well, don't show any signs of stress or disease and you haven't had any losses? What is that magical rule that we as reefkeepers need to grasp to be deemed "responsible?" Or for that matter to deem our livestock "happy."

Some people then ramble off the xx inches per gallon rule which most experienced reefers know is a junk rule. How can you tell what's going on in the mind of your fish? How can someone say that going from a 29 gallon to a 75 or 100 or whatever is such an improvement when the largest tank you have ever seen at any public aquarium is horrendously miniscule compared to the ocean?

Then there's the argument that at least in my tank the fish doesn't have to worry about being eaten all the time. Wouldn't that in itself be a stress-reducing factor? Would a fish be happier with a large expanse of territory through which to swim in the wild with the possiblity of predation looming. Or would he rather be in a small glass box (30, 75, 280 gallon, whatever gallon) and not have to worry about their next meal or being someone elses next meal.

My comments are not motivated to provoke an argument but simply to increase my own personal knowledge and insight into the ethical considerations of my chosen hobby.
  #47  
Old 02/16/2005, 06:24 PM
fishykid9212 fishykid9212 is offline
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selgado all the way
  #48  
Old 02/16/2005, 06:36 PM
dendronepthya dendronepthya is offline
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We could probably start with why fish like tangs live to 1/10th their natural life span in our systems. Anyone here own a 15 year old tang? Nobody?

I would venture to guess that millions of tang have been "whispering" their displeasure with our systems for quite some time.
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  #49  
Old 02/16/2005, 06:40 PM
The Punisher The Punisher is offline
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I think that a lot of what you said is true, as far as activity, eating, general appearance being signs of healthy fish. But I also think you have to look at the long term affects of some of these "overstocked tanks". Sure they look good for a short time, maybe even a year, but I've yet to see a thread or talked to a hobbyist who has kept one of these extrememly overstocked tanks for very long. I have read countless threads by newbies who put a Yellow Tang in a 29 gallon tank and ask why it's sick or dying? So many, in fact, that I believe they need bigger tanks to live happy lives. Can I say this is a fact, of course not. Do I think I've seen enough bad stories that I know in my mind that it's wrong to keep a tang in a very small tank, absolutely. I think that's part of being responsible in this hobby. You can argue that we can't provide an adequate environment even with the biggest tanks but I don't think that's the issue here. The issue is providing the best habitat to these animals with the available knowledge that we have on them. We are taking them out of there natural habitat for our amusement and if we do this we have a responsibility to take care of them as best we know how. I don't lie to myself and think I am bettering the lives of my fish, I know I'm not, but I do what I can to make them as comfortable as possible while in my care.
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  #50  
Old 02/21/2005, 09:56 AM
DJM32189 DJM32189 is offline
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I have a 20 FOWLR and all my levels are fine with 1 pajama, 1 royal gramma, 1 yellow tailed damsel, 1 occelaris, and 1 tomato (baby) and yes the clowns do get along and no the damsel is not aggressive.
 

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