For All PetCo lovers/haters...

[TheMandarinFish]

The massive exploitation of the reefs, especially with such atrocious carnage, will be that much worse if PetCo gets more into saltwater.

Mark my words - CITES will be bringing the serious restrictions sooner than later. Thanks, in no small part, to PetCo.

It's bad enough they wholesale massacre captive bred small terrestrial creatures.

The more saltwater they have, the worse it is for us. PetCo's untrained HS kids as animal keepers, policy of turn-and-burn animals, idiot managers, bottom line corporate regional managers, etc. are ruining this hobby.

Unethical, unsustainable, unconsionable. Boycott PetCo.

[Flipturn88]

Very true; PETCO won't improve unless their workers are better trained and skilled. There is no way they will be willing to spend the time and money to teach all of their employees proper care and maintenance of reef/saltwater fish tanks...it's just not a priority for them...sad, but true.



BTW, being in High School doesn't always mean you're stupid; I'm a sophmore and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about reefing .

[TheMandarinFish]

Flipturn88 - I agree. A guy in my reef club is still in HS and has been reefing for years. He rears seahorses.

I got a tank from a family that was moving... it was their son's tank. He explained to me how much he loved inverts, especially nudibranchs.

He had been building a database or what species the obligate-feeding nudibranchs eat. He was 8 years old. He knows more about nudibranchs than anyone I know, including a veteran Kiribasi diver who observed them a lot.

But you guys are the exception. It's not about age. Definitely.

But it is about training. And PetCo doesn't give that.

Sadly, those who work in the fish sections of PetCo aren't informed, and those who are and try to make a difference end up fired.

No kidding.

Boycott PetCo.

[iCam]

BTW, being in High School doesn't always mean you're stupid; I'm a sophmore and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about reefing .

Exactly. I remember walking into the LFS one day, and an older guy was talking to the LFS owner while he bagged the new coral I bought, and the older guy was like "Oh, so you get to pick out the stuff for you mommies tank" and laughed.... Even though my tank is nothing special, it is 50x better than any of the adult's tanks in town

I actually only went into a Petco once, but I wasn't amazed at the selection or quality of their livestock.

I've only been in a few times, but I have to say Petsmart seemed like they knew their animals well. We went to the equine section to buy a new english saddle, and the guy and girl working in that section were both riders, that were very knowledgeable and helpful.

[Flipturn88]

I agree; I bought my tank from Petsmart, and even though after I brought it home I noticed a crack in the corner, they were very helpful in replacing it and even reduced the price due to the "inconvenience" (even though I didn't mind). They also did not carry saltwater fish when I went there, and all of their freshwater tanks looked very healthy. I can't speak for the other animals, but I know they don't carry nearly as many critters as Petco (I didn't see any birds, reptiles, rabbits, etc).

Although they are still a chain-store, I don't hear nearly as many complaints about their husbandry and service as I do Petco.

[bronzermike54]

Redneck hunters! We must have the largest population of rednecks in the world, since there are more than several MILLION people who hunt in the U.S. And, lest we all forgot, Ingird Newkirk's A RAT IS A PIG IS A DOG IS A BOY mantra. THERE'S SOME SMART THINKIN' THERE BOYS! (BURP!, Excooose me, jist had to tip my bottle a bit, whoooheee!)

[Flanders]

There goes all rational thought. I feel it leaving me.

[bronzermike54]

I think it's time to deep six this thread, ther's no reason or purpose to it beyond the "nyah nyah, so's your mother" routine. Give it up, if you don't want to shop at a certain store, don't. IF they don't get the biz, they'll dry up.

[saltshop]

Originally posted by bronzermike54
I think it's time to deep six this thread, ther's no reason or purpose to it beyond the "nyah nyah, so's your mother" routine.

Umm...this thread was long dead until you bumped it back up to the top...

[ghostbear29]

i agree, how do you save pets when you burn down the retail stores with the animals inside, blow up fishing boats in a marine reserve area right above a thousand year old reef. save a tree by nailing spikes inside of it. real bright. this goes to show that the people have too much time on their hands and are jaded by brainwashing and nihlistic behavior. jack asses!!!!

[ghostbear29]

go to school, get a job, raise a intellegent family, spend your hard earned money on a great reef system. hoorah. Capitalism at its best. oh yeah, i eat red meat too!!!!

[trstange]

PETA deliberately acts outragreously, not for symapathy or membership drives, but because they are drawing attention to what they see as important ethical issues.


I think that anyone who targets children with things like the "McCruelty Meal" with a toy of Ronald McDonald holding a bloody butcher knife or the book they were giving to the children of women who wear fur coats should be horse whipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have so they can't afford to do it again.

they talk about cruelty to animals, what about cruelty to children

[GreasyMidget]

lol PETA!

[Kamko]

Don't even get me started on how ridiciolous PETA is. I agree that Petco is one of the worst pet stores, but PETA is worse. Why? They want to totally abolish meat from human consumption, hmmm ok, well what about certain nucleic acids and other important organic compounds that are only available in meats? How does PETA think that humans developed over the centuries? Also I bet that thousands of PETA members are killing/poisoning countless innocent animals by driving their cars, driving nails into trees (which were probably manufactured at a great loss to the environment), etc. - excuse my sarcasm but PETA is so hypocritical.

[TheMandarinFish]

I won't dignify the posts with gross misspellings or random ranting.

Now let's look at the actions of PETA and the actions of PETCO.

WHICH ONE IS GOING TO EXPEDITE CITES CRACKDOWN ON THE HOBBY IN QUESTION ?

Who cares what one theory or philosophy is behind PEOPLE for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of ANIMALS ?

Who cares if they promote vegetarian diets? If you think they're so wrong, go on an all-meat diet. See how long you live.

Your logic "Kamko" is 100% fallacy. You are saying "I bet..." which means you are not discussing facts, especially statistics.

Well, "I bet" that a far higher percentage of PETA members drive hybrids or use public transportation than the general population.

Driving nails into trees? You have no idea what organizations you're even discussing.

I think an ancient redwood would vote for a spike over being cut to a stump, but this isn't about monkeywrenching, which is off-topic anyway.

Before you respond, do your research so you know what groups you are discussing, and come with facts.

I respectfully submit that you seem like someone with intellectual interests, but if you are a student you should do your homework first. Especially a physicist.

Trstrange - What about what McDonalds does in the way of promoting childhood obesity and deforestation? Is trying to show kids that meat comes from animal corpses worse than actually feeding children RBGH, pesticide, herbicide, hormones, antibiotics, fungicide, more pesticide, Mad Cow disease, e-coli, dioxins... the list goes on.

Feeding poison to kids deserves horsewhipping.

Feeding poison to children or telling them where it comes from?

Again, I do not condone every campaign of PETA, and am not a member.

But you cannot accuse them of actions their organization has nothing to do with whatsoever or relatively nonthreatening actions VS what they are up against.

Care to defend the fast food beef industry? Let's start with global warming and it's effects on the coral reefs we are here to discuss first, then work our way back.

So before anyone jumps on the "crazy treehugger wackos" fallacy logic, lets discuss science. Let's discuss CITES. Let's discuss global warming, if you want, since that ties the fast food beef industry directly to our hobby.

Have any of you people bashing PETA spent time actually in reefs? In collection zones? In no-catch zones? In equatorial reefs where global warming is causing epic bleaching?

Let's discuss the ethics of PetCo now, and what the result of their practices will be on *YOUR* hobby.... specifically mortality rates, declining ornamental fish stocks, CITES, and PetCo's record with live animal care.

[trstange]

TheMandarinFish

I stand by my post, ANYONE who targets children in the manor PETA does should be horsewhipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have.

[Kamko]

I respect you criticizing my post, as I like to exchange opinions, now let's get back to our discussion. You want facts or stats? I haven't seen you providing any stats to back your argument.
Quote: "Your logic "Kamko" is 100% fallacy." - Is that a fact according to you or just a poor hyperbole? No problem I'll get some from my stats teacher, but for now suffice to say manufacturing hybrid cars actually puts environment at a greater stake (something to do with the second law of thermodynamics by any chance?) Next, considering the prices of hybrid cars it is unlikely that the population of PETA members should have a higher proportion of people who drive eco-cars. Don't try to tell me that PETA members don't drive cars, I can bet on that one. My logic in this argument holds (unless you have stats that say otherwise). Regarding quality of meat, that's side-steping my argument, the fact is certain nucleic acids can only be obtained from meats. The only reason humans were able to evolve into intelligent beings was by eating high-calorie meats, whcih enabled for further development of the brain.
Again, I'm by no means supporting PetCo, I was just pointing out discrepancies in PETA's actions and philosophy.

FYI, thank you for a complement, but I'm not a physicict (that's my just my hobby, although I would love to double-major in it), next year I'm hoping to get into a med-school.

[TheMandarinFish]

trstange - a manor is a house ( ), and I maintain that ANYONE who targets children the way McDonalds does "should be horsewhipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have"

Kamko - people can rally and organize for whatever they believe in, and the fact they require transportation does not negate their contributions, efforts, philosophies, etc.

Sooooo if you're trying to say they can't have a point of view because they need to get from Point A to Point B and live in a country under the fist of oil barons, I don't buy it.

As for "human evolution," I still maintain that a no-meat diet beats an all-meat diet and if you want to test it, let's make a bet on who lives longer.

I know plenty of absolutely brilliant vegetarians, people who are, in all measures, intellectually and physically equivalent to anyone who eats animals.

If it's so necessary, I think you need to make that case to the top endurance athletes in the world, as many of the most competitive don't consume animal flesh.

Humans also went through the Bronze Age to get where we are today, but that doesn't mean you need to go around wearing the stuff.

PS no one is discussing CITES here. Let me get you started, so we understand what is happening - http://www.animalforum.com/freefreg.htm

In the interest of intelligent conversation, stay on task - what PetCo is doing to the hobby, what the future holds, and why animal rights organizations (countless of them, PETA is only one - get over PETA) work hard against PetCo.

[Kamko]

I never said that PETA had no rights to organize or rally.

I believe you misunderstood me mandarin. I did not state that eating meats will make you live longer. I stated that eating meats was a necessary evolutionary step for humans to develop larger cerebral cortex.

I'm not sure so I will ask, is PETA against drug testing on animals as well?

[wtrhed]

Oh boy!! I do love a good "curbstomping". Mandarinfish, how's this for redneck "if it flies it dies" or "If it's brown it's down". You probably liked those huh? What are we ever going to do with all these hippies??? Any hunter/fisherman have WAY more ethics than any of those PETA freaks. Anyone that would put an animals life before a humans is just off in the head!

[trstange]

yes I spelled a word wrong, guess that makes your rant correct...
or does that just make you arrogant...

[Flanders]

Have any of you people bashing PETA spent time actually in reefs? In collection zones? In no-catch zones? In equatorial reefs where global warming is causing epic bleaching?

TheMandarinFish, I fail to see in your own posts (which are filled with ranting by the way) what PETA has done for the reefs. Or for global warming. I guess you're too busy being arrogant and critical of everyone who isn't as smart as you.

I'm not sure so I will ask, is PETA against drug testing on animals as well

Yes, in fact the former head of PETA was quoted as saying that animal testing isn't necessary because people bring all diseases on themselves and if you're stupid enough to get a disease you should deal with it. He definitely deserves to get some form of incurable cancer IMO.

[JHReef]

I thought this thread would die but...I gotta say this:

Mandrinfish...I know your heart is in the right place, but nitpicking people by pointing out spelling errors, accusing them of not having any grounds to their opinions, and misquoting them in a condescending way is going to do very little in the way of promoting an "on topic" discussion. Don't you think? (oops, a run-on sentence, followed by a fragment)
I think, and others may agree, that your posts are on the verge of fanatical. If you want people to take you seriously, maybe you should put your little red marker down, quit grading people, and make some VALID points of your own.
BTW, you note that you are a teacher. I hope you don't try and force your point of view on young minds. You sure wouldn't want to be my child's teacher if I found that out...you ain't even seen any curbstompin'.

Y'all have a real nice day, I know I will, gonna grill me some meat tonight....yeeeeehaaaaaawww!

[trstange]

Originally posted by JHReef
.

Y'all have a real nice day, I know I will, gonna grill me some meat tonight....yeeeeehaaaaaawww!

Is it a big juicy t-bone , what time should I be there?

[j.stagner]

Originally posted by TheMandarinFish

Sadly, those who work in the fish sections of PetCo aren't informed, and those who are and try to make a difference end up fired.

No kidding.

This statement is perhaps just a little too broadly applied. I used to work at Petco (and a few other LFS at other times), and was far from uninformed. Although I've never seen anyone fired from Petco for trying to make a difference, I've seen them fired for being totally inept. If you have information to the contrary I would be particularly interested in seeing it (no sarcasm here).

It was far more likely for those who were well informed and wanted things to change to become completely dissatisfied with their job and move on. You can only hit your head on a brick wall so many times before you decide it's better to just stop.

Now, having said that, you must realize that for a while I *ran* the fish department. I had complete control over inventory, and total ownership of the stocking and maintenance of the reef display tanks. I tried to educate customers, recommend books, groups, and even other stores. I even refused to sell livestock on several occasions. But since my sales were always high, I got away with it.

I realize that this isolated case only proves some of your points, I just want to point out that Petco is like *any* of the large chain stores. The bean-counters and managers simply don't care. Nowhere was it written in the Petco guidelines that you can't care. I think these problems are unfortunately shared by many other companies.

As for PETA, many of their ads make me laugh, some make me think, most make me very irritated. I simply can't stand the over-the-top antics of any group, even one with as noble a purpose as PETA. I often wonder if they would find a more receptive audience if they presented less biased, but nevertheless true, information without the drama.

$0.02+