Down the drain...

[gmax111]

I've been pondering this for awhile and haven't really been able to find an answer...

What happens to all the salt water we dump down the drains???


I live in las vegas and i dont know much about our local water district but i do know its a rather tedious task to convert sea water into drinking water... So how does our local water facilities handle salt water?

[HippieSmell]

If you're in an area where raw sewage might be dumped into the water, then I think you need to be more concerned about introducing foreign species. The amount of salt that aquarists put into the sewage system is minuscule compared to the amount peed out by millions of people.

[simmons797]

The saltwater gets treated just at the wastewater treatment plant just like anything else you send down the drain. The amount of saltwater that is dumped down the drain is very small and will have no effect on the treatment process.

HippySmell-In what areas is raw sewage dumped into the water?

[HippieSmell]

I know there have been some cases in Florida, and I'm sure there are other cases that I'm unaware of. Sadly, people in the US don't think that things like this still happen, but they do.

[Konadog]

Originally posted by HippieSmell
If you're in an area where raw sewage might be dumped into the water, then I think you need to be more concerned about introducing foreign species.

I don't know of anywhere in the US that raw sewage is dumped directly into the water on purpose. If it's dumped into a storm drain that could lead to the ocean or a lake, then I would be concerned about introducing a foreign species.

[Justinandkrista]

it might not be smart to dump it down the drain if you have a septic.

[RumLad]

Originally posted by Konadog
I don't know of anywhere in the US that raw sewage is dumped directly into the water on purpose. If it's dumped into a storm drain that could lead to the ocean or a lake, then I would be concerned about introducing a foreign species.

Here in Chicago, after a seriously heavy rain, if the sewage treatment facility (commonly known as the deep tunnel) can't handle all of the water, the flood gates are opened and the raw, untreated water is allowed to flow into Lake Michigan.
Usually happens several times a year.

[gmax111]

Originally posted by RumLad
Here in Chicago, after a seriously heavy rain, if the sewage treatment facility (commonly known as the deep tunnel) can't handle all of the water, the flood gates are opened and the raw, untreated water is allowed to flow into Lake Michigan.
Usually happens several times a year.

WOW!!! and people are worried about saving the rain forest...

[greenbean36191]

There are lots of places that pump most of their sewage into the ocean with nothing more than basically mechanical filtration and some biological filtration. That makes it pretty hard for any macro-life to make it out to the ocean, but a whole lot of microbes make it and the potential for introducing pathogens is real.

There are at least 6 huge outfall pipes in south Florida alone. Hawai'i used to have them too, but they've been working on upgrading their system recently, and I believe they've phased out most, if not all of them. Within the past couple of years though I know of at least two occasions where they had situations like RumLad described.

[fishdoc11]

Here in Tennessee it's not uncommon for raw sewage to be dumped into rivers when an overflow situation occurs as well. Fortunately they have done quite a bit of work on the problem lately, especially here in East TN where the problem is worse than it is in the rest of the state.
One thing to remember is "the solution to pollution is dilution" so when raw sewage is dumped at least it's being dumped at peak flows in the waterways.

Chris

[projectmayhem16]

I've been to two of the sewage treatment plants in this area for field trips. They're mostly concerned with removal of nutrients from the water (even though one of them doesn't meet environmental standards) but they have no method for removing salt from the water. The amount of salt is very low, but it's still there. They also have an overflow, and if there's too much rainfall, all the sewage ends up in the Susquehanna River.

[RumLad]

To somewhat piggyback on another thread in this forum, it is also known here in Chicago that the Lake receives about 200 or so pounds of mercury per year from rainfall (read that as air pollution. coal burning, deisel fumes etc). But yet there is an uproar when a local employer (very large, local employer) wants to keep its current level of mercury discharge while upgrading its plant capacity. The local plants total yearly mercury output? Just less than 2 pounds.

[simmons797]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
There are lots of places that pump most of their sewage into the ocean with nothing more than basically mechanical filtration and some biological filtration. That makes it pretty hard for any macro-life to make it out to the ocean, but a whole lot of microbes make it and the potential for introducing pathogens is real.

Not lots of places, virtually all places do this, that is basically all wastewater treatment is: mechanical and biological filtration. While some places do have to dissenfect the treated effluent not all do, this is mandated by the EPA depending on what type of receiving waters they have.

Almost all sewer systems have some of type of "relief" for times when the flow is more than the pipes can handle. During these times it is true that "raw sewage" may be allowed to flow into streams, rivers, lakes, etc. However, as fishdoc11 stated, these overflows usually happen during heavy rains so this "raw sewage" is highly dilluted. The alternative to this would be to allow the sewage to flow back into people's homes which poses a potentially greater health risk.

RumLad while I don't know Chicago's system specifically I believe the deep tunnel you are referring to is part of the TARP project? This project is being done to store these excess flows so that the overflows don't happen.

[greenbean36191]

Not lots of places, virtually all places do this, that is basically all wastewater treatment is: mechanical and biological filtration.

I'm talking plants that do the very least amount of secondary treatment allowable, and maybe not even that. There are groups trying to bring suits against a few of the treatment facilities in FL alleging that the water coming out of the outflows doesn't meet minimum government requirements. The stuff comes out dark brown and still smelling very strongly of sewage and even has so much particulates left in it that fish gather to eat it.

The fact that you can get away with so little in the way of real treatment is why ocean outflows are so much more economical than a modern treatment plant.

[A.T.T.R]

wouldent the chlorine and other crap in sewer water kill anyhting on its trip to the ocean?

(

[boggs32]

nice question! Is it better, typically, to send it down the drain or dump it outside?

[greenbean36191]

wouldent the chlorine and other crap in sewer water kill anyhting on its trip to the ocean?

The only chlorine is what's originally added to the municipal water. After about 24 hrs most of it's already gassed off back into the air. The amount of pathogenic bacteria and viruses in the effluent going back out to the ocean is pretty well documented and those same bacteria have been found on reefs nearby, suggesting that they came from the sewage. Keep in mind that by the time the water gets to the secondary treatment stage (biological filtration) it's already suitable for bacteria to thrive.

[RumLad]

Originally posted by simmons797


RumLad while I don't know Chicago's system specifically I believe the deep tunnel you are referring to is part of the TARP project? This project is being done to store these excess flows so that the overflows don't happen.

Correct. The Deep Tunnel Project (one of the great engineering marvels of the world) is designed to handle the excess water generated by severe heavy rain. The key word here is designed. It still doesn't fully work. It has been under construction since the 70's and it still can't handle the overflow.

Whether diluted or not, you still have millions of gallons of untreated wastewater flowing into Lake Michigan several times a year. And the more people build up the surrounding areas, the more run-off is generated. I personally don't think the tunnel will ever be large enough, or constructed fast enough, to keep up with the growth. The same growth that demands more and more clean water from the very same lake!

[kreper3]

that other guy is right, the salts from the tank are negligable compared to salts from other sources

depending on the nature of the local POTW (publicly owned treatment works), salts mostly end up in the dewatered treatment plant sludge, the biosolids are then composted and sold to the citizens with green wastes as fertilizer, the treatment plant i work for gives it to the local farms to spread on their fields (lots of nitrogen..), other POTW's take it to the landfill for daily cover

salts occur as something called TSS, (total suspended solids),

the NPDES permit each POTW has limits the influent/effluent water of the wastewater treatment plant in regards to the amount of metals, TSS, and just about everything else of consequence to the permit,

limits on the permit are determined by receiving bodies of water like oceans, streams, lakes and groundwater etc...

For example, Vegas pumps some of their wastewater effluent back into the aquifer to recharge the groundwater... so their permit for that water requires the discharge to be as clean or cleaner than the receiving body, ie mg/L TSS, metals and other goodies

[fishdoc11]

kreper3,
[welcome]
Chris

[kreper3]

thank you