Winter time - DYI power back-up

Davidb6 · #1 12/10/2007, 07:38 PM

8 month old tank and heading into its first winter season in the NE with possible power outages.

Three options depending on cost and complexity -
1, run an air stone / pump (link below)
2, run a Koralia pump (11 w)
3, Run a Koralia pump (11 w) and a 300w heater.

Thinking of a marine battery (or 2) w/ trickle charger type setup in basement.

FYI - I'm electronically challenged.

Any good ideas you want to share?

Here's a simple air pump
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=0011939000000

RyanBrucks · #2 12/10/2007, 08:55 PM

I have nothing to share yet, but I am glad you started this thread because this very topic has been on my mind lately.

I am looking around at various power backup devices, but it would be great if somebody could answer some questions about how long a certain power amount will last with a given load?

For example, this APC Smart-UPS has 1500VA and 980W. It's a high end PC backup.

The stats list:
Full Load Run Time: 6.7 minutes
Half Load Run Time: 23.9 minutes

Does anybody know how to determine how long this would conceivably run using a small powerhead and a heater? Are aquarium-made backups going to be any better?

Also of possible concern: if you have ancillary tanks like refugium and coral frag, then I suppose each of these tanks would need a backup heater and powerhead also?

GrandeGixxer · #3 12/10/2007, 09:16 PM

I will be following along as well. Now that I have some very nice specimens in my little box of life, I would like to keep them alive. I think the Koralia and the heater would be your best bet.

MeuserReef · #4 12/10/2007, 09:40 PM

The amount of power that the average UPS will supply is pretty minimal. I chose to go another route for my backup needs.

The battery backup system that I have consists of a DC power inverter running on a 12V deep cycle battery.

So long as you know the total wattage of all of the devices that you plan on using, and you have the Amp-Hour capacity of the battery that you plan on using, you can determine the run-time of your load on this calculator

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inv....html#how_long

I might add that my system is not currently in service because I have not been able to swallow the cost of a good PURE sine wave power inverter.

Davidb6 · #5 12/10/2007, 09:45 PM

Here's one idea I found on-line.

http://home.comcast.net/~cknapp21/BackupPower.htm

I agree with you RyanBrucks, I have to start out knowing how much power I need. That's why I put the wattage on the first post. But, I don't know how to convert that to required output.

ufans · #6 12/10/2007, 10:01 PM

Read this...

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...p&pagenumber=1

SuperAWE · #7 12/10/2007, 10:04 PM

I would cave and get a small generator. Some of the small hondas can run up to 15 hours. With all the time and money invested it would be a shame if you used all your back up battery and then your tank crashed. A small investment up front could save thousands.

BTW a friend just bought the small 1000w generator from harbor freight and it works great for the price!

Cove Beach · #8 12/10/2007, 10:17 PM

Another thing that needs to be added into the equation is the efficiency of the inverter. There is an old saying in electronics" You don't get something for nothing", that said your run time can and will be shorter than a calculated amount. I currently have a DIY battery backup on my 75 gal reef. About 2 months ago we lost power for a bit over 5 hrs. I happened to be tinkering in the sump when the lights went out. There was about a 4 second delay and my entire system came back online. The equipment on the tank consists of a Mag 12 pump, 250Watt heater,Lifereef SVS24 skimmer, a pair of Tunze 6045s,a Wavy Sea return, and a 48" Nova Extreme T5 light fixture all tied into an RK2 controller. All of this was up and running normally for 5 hours and showed no sign of shutting down. My backup consists of a pair of Medical life support gel cell batts, a 2000 watt continuous duty inverter, and a DIY relay switching circuit and outlet box i designed. When the power comes back on the transition is seamless, the Tunzes don't even clank!!

MSU Fan · #9 12/10/2007, 10:29 PM

Seriously Cove Beach, we need a walkthrough for that explanation! That sounds pretty much ideal for many scenarios (and tanks), but I am leery of the cost of that sort of system...

MeuserReef · #10 12/10/2007, 10:30 PM

I forgot to mention that Im using a 750 Amp-Hour battery.

NanoReefWanabe · #11 12/10/2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cove Beach
Another thing that needs to be added into the equation is the efficiency of the inverter. There is an old saying in electronics" You don't get something for nothing", that said your run time can and will be shorter than a calculated amount. I currently have a DIY battery backup on my 75 gal reef. About 2 months ago we lost power for a bit over 5 hrs. I happened to be tinkering in the sump when the lights went out. There was about a 4 second delay and my entire system came back online. The equipment on the tank consists of a Mag 12 pump, 250Watt heater,Lifereef SVS24 skimmer, a pair of Tunze 6045s,a Wavy Sea return, and a 48" Nova Extreme T5 light fixture all tied into an RK2 controller. All of this was up and running normally for 5 hours and showed no sign of shutting down. My backup consists of a pair of Medical life support gel cell batts, a 2000 watt continuous duty inverter, and a DIY relay switching circuit and outlet box i designed. When the power comes back on the transition is seamless, the Tunzes don't even clank!!

i too am very interested in this setup and a breakdown of costs, along with a wiring diagram associated with it....that would be most awesome...you can pm me if you like to keep this thread a little more on topic, though this is very related

Terry Evans · #12 12/11/2007, 01:26 AM

Here's a DIY thread I found...

DIY Battery Backup

RyanBrucks · #13 12/11/2007, 02:58 AM

what would people recommend as a good heater to use as a backup heater?

I am wondering if you set the heater to turn on a few degrees below the desired temperature (say 78 or so), if it would significantly increase the battery life.

I agree the koralia seems like a good option. The DIY batteries look cool, but even the car battery one is only capable of 240 watts and costs $367 to build!

There are UPS backup devices with 1200 Watts for $230

I'd much rather pay 230 and get a 125k warranty than DIY something this critical when a wet environment is a possibility (especially since a power switch is probably one of the most likely times for flooding).

I suspect that an 11w powerhead could run for at least a day on one of those, but I wonder how quickly a 300W heater would drain it.

MeuserReef · #14 12/11/2007, 12:21 PM

The UPS doesnt say how long it will run the 1200W. In other words, you dont know the AMP-Hours of the battery, so we cant calculate how long it would run your stuff.

Keep in mind that the unit is still a lead-acid battery, just with a few more whistles and bells.

I also doubt that the "125K" warranty would apply to your aquarium-related stuff. I bet it only covers Electronics/Computers as that was what is was designed/sold for.

Just my $.02

As far as run times, on any system, assuming a 11W powerhead runs for 24 hours (which would mean that you have a 53AH battery), a 300W heater would run for about 53 minutes (or 1/27 the time that the PH would run). Together the heater and the PH would run for about 50 min.

Dont get me wrong, this is an awesome idea for SMALL WATTAGE devices. Any attempt to run main, critical systems (ie heaters, return pumps, etc) will require more than a UPS IMO/IME.

annewayne · #15 12/11/2007, 12:57 PM

I would honestly bite the bullet and buy a generator. I bought one from O'reilys for 389.00 (3500 watts) it runs my main pump, heater, and my furnace and fridge. We under a ice storm right now, and i have power but i'm not worried with the generator. IMO Wayne

miwoodar · #16 12/11/2007, 01:13 PM

FYI...our club forum just had a good thread on this topic. I covered off the shelf UPS, DIY battery backups (what I have), generators, and tri-fuel generator modifications.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1264698

MeuserReef · #17 12/11/2007, 01:50 PM

I really want to add a generator/Transfer switch to my whole house, its just the up-front investment cost that has prevented me from doing this so far!

Lucky Strike · #18 12/11/2007, 02:32 PM

some of us in apartments cant run generators, and there not a perfect solution to the anwser either. You have to worry about someone taking off with it at night, there loud, they need to be refilled with gas, they need to be used outside. Propapane generators are another optiion, but not everyone has the $$ for that either. Deep cycle batteries are a good option, for alot of reasons, but also keep in mind that you need 100% sealed batteries because regular car batteries (not optimas) have vents and give off a gas that can build up in an enclosed enviroment afaik. ups are out of the question if you want to endure a long power outage which, is pretty much the point. i guess if you were crafty you could add more batteries to the ups, or link many ups together, but would become pricey fast.

RyanBrucks · #19 12/11/2007, 03:07 PM

"The UPS doesnt say how long it will run the 1200W."

I might be missing something, but for every UPS I've looked at, the full-load battery time is right around 6-10 minutes. I would expect this UPS to be basically the same, only having more watts makes our given load comparitively less.

APC has a runtime chart that is useful

the 865W APC model will run 50watts for ~3 hours. Looks like halving the load slightly-more-than-doubles the battery life according to that chart.

Just guesstimating, but I'd think an 11w koralia would run for about 12 hours on 865 watts. Not quite the 24 hours I had previously assumed. I can see why a heater + UPS is pretty much a non-option.

The vortech battery backup claims 30 hours of backup for a ~28W vortech pump. I know its a bit pricier than UPS+Koralia, but maybe its a better option?

miwoodar,
Thanks for that link to the thread on generators. I'd love to go all out and get a big generator, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to go that far just yet. If I do, I will definitely pay an electrician to have it turn on automatically etc, since otherwise IMO you would still need a backup battery solution with powerheads (imagine my power going out right after I leave for work in the morning, and I don't find out until I get home, 8-10 hours later).

miwoodar · #20 12/11/2007, 03:30 PM

FYI - My DIY battery backup has a 205 amp-hour marine battery and cost $135 to make (w/ craigslist battery deal). My old APC 500 had an 8 amp-hour battery and cost nearly $500.

It's not usually a good idea to run heating devices on a battery backup. I have mine hooked up to my stream pumps (total of 3200 gph in a 65) and can get at least a day, maybe more of good flow. If I think the power will be out that long, covering the tank with blankets should keep the temp fairly stable.

I'm not ready for a generator yet. Someday though.

Davidb6 · #21 12/12/2007, 01:54 PM

The Vortech pump and battery backup is a great idea...added pumping power and battery backup. However, these guys have to be making a bundle off the price of the pump. Anybody think the battery backup could be mod'ed to support other pumps? Or, maybe it doesn't even have to be mod'ed.

$150.00 for 30 hrs of backup..not bad for a non DIY'er

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1121

Davidb6 · #22 12/12/2007, 08:36 PM

After hearing all the other benifits..I'm going the easy route...Vortech with a battery backup.

rivdog · #23 12/12/2007, 09:01 PM

could u wire that backup to a cheap pump like a maxi. $400 is awfully expensive

oldschooldino · #24 12/12/2007, 11:02 PM

I currently run an APC 1300 VA UPS on my tank. At 12% load (97 watts) the front menu says I should get about 52 minutes of run time. In the 4 years I have lived here, the longest power outage I experienced was about 20 minutes. That said, I also recently bought a used 5000 watt generator on the cheap. I hope I never have to use it, but better safe than sorry, I guess.

Davidb6 · #25 12/13/2007, 11:22 AM

rivdog, in my case I need improved water flow and I need battery backup. This solution, although expensive, seems to make sense and it's plug and play...no DIY involved. And, when I looked at the alternitives it really wasn't that much more.

To bad other MFGs of power heads don't offer the same type of backup.