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  #1  
Old 12/14/2007, 09:38 AM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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tank crashing!!! from too high ca???

I overdosed limewater and shot the ca through the roof. i maintained proper ph (8.1 at am, 8.3 just before lights off) through the whole dosing, and ever since. i used vinegar to drop the ph of the limewater down to a reasonable level so the ph never spiked high. i checked it 10 times as i was dosing the tank and immedately after, and the ph stayed stable. the snowstorm came after about 12-15 hrs (in the middle of the night) and everything seemed to be fine for about 24. ph stable as well as all other levels staying normal. i was just going to wait it out for the water to clear up, but i woke up this morning (48 hrs after dosing) and 3 fish are dead, all snails are dead, frogspawn and softies look horrible, anemones look horrible, and after a full blown water test i get this:

ammonia, nitrite: 0
nitrate:15-20
phosphate: .3-.4
ca: 500
alk:10 meq/L

any guidance would be helpful, and yes i am doing a 30% water change right now, trying to force myself not to do more. posting while i wait for the salt to fully dissolve.
  #2  
Old 12/14/2007, 09:59 AM
papagimp papagimp is offline
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My current Ca level is sitting about there. And I've had it far higher without any deaths occuring. Not saying the dosing mess up didn't do anything, not sure on that, (chemistry was never my thing).
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  #3  
Old 12/14/2007, 10:12 AM
Spracklcat Spracklcat is offline
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This is a shot in the dark, but it sounds more like you had an oxygen/CO2 problem. I don't think too much calcium could kill fish or inverts, but too much CO2 certainly could. Was your nitrate/phosphate level that high before the kalk addition? And why add so much at once?

Or, perhaps a toxin was released?

Either way, I wouldn't hold off on the water changes--I'd change out as much water as I could make, and continue with water changes over the next days to get your levels back to normal.
  #4  
Old 12/14/2007, 10:19 AM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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it was not all that much, it was only about 48 hrs worth @ 1/4 tsp per hour, or 3 tablespoons of dry calcium hydroxide. the weird thing is that everything in the tank looked normal/healthy for about 12 hrs after the dosing, and things didn't start dying or showing signs of stress until after the snowstorm. those nitrate/phos levels are the norm for the tank, and everything had been healthy.
  #5  
Old 12/14/2007, 10:22 AM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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i even put in some fresh activated carbon "just in case". only 50% more than i usually do, but i run less carbon per gallon than suggested under normal circumstances.
  #6  
Old 12/14/2007, 11:41 AM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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maybe it was not clear that i dosed the 48 hrs worth of limewater in about 2 hrs. (maintained a stable ph the whole time)
  #7  
Old 12/14/2007, 11:51 AM
Sk8r Sk8r is offline
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I've overdosed lime and hit that reading with no problems. What test are you using on the phosphate? Rare that you can pick up any at all, though you may have algae. Definitely corals won't like that or the nitrite.
I'm inclining toward the low oxygen theory, myself, however. It just should not have hurt them on its own. Reasoning: it happened in the dark, during the oxygen low of the tank.
Do you have a fuge? What is its lighting cycle? A skimmer? How potent?
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  #8  
Old 12/14/2007, 12:53 PM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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that calcium reading was after it precipitated, not while still in solution in the tank, i was going to wait 24 hrs after the dosing to test the calcium so it had a good chance to equalize in the tank, but precipitated before i got the chance

i have a sump w/my crappy protein skimmer in it, but it is oversized so it does ok, lots of live rock/sand and plants to keep levels down

here is the normal operational setup:

t5 ho 156 total watts 50/50 blue and 10K, 9hr light cycle with blues coming on 1/2 hr before and going off 1/2 hr after the 10k's

small uv sterilizer use, occasional activated carbon use

43 gal display w/~70lbs live rock and 3-4" dsb (which has not been stirred) with about 4 gal in the sump

the tank has only been up for about 4 months so dsb is probably not causing the crash

oh yea, somehow my 2 clownfish are still alive (although very stressed/breathing hard), but my shrimp, snails, and a good number of bristle worms are dead. i thought the bristle worms were fairly indestructible
  #9  
Old 12/14/2007, 12:54 PM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
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One of the concerns with calcium acetate (or limewater plus vinegar) is O2 depletion as bacteria consume the acetate. A large and sudden addition of it might be much worse than a simple limewater overdose, which many of us have had and which rarely causes losses unless the pH gets and stays above 8.7 for a substantial period.
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  #10  
Old 12/14/2007, 04:08 PM
Spracklcat Spracklcat is offline
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And that makes perfect sense with the cloudiness too--very likely a bacterial bloom. That and the clownfish having respiratory distress

Do go ahead and do huge water changes, and add airstones if you can to keep the oxygen level as high as you can. Also keep on top of keeping the pH up so that there is less CO2 dissolved in the water.
  #11  
Old 12/16/2007, 12:46 AM
Zestay Zestay is offline
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did you say that you added lime / kalkwasser powder directly to your tank?
  #12  
Old 12/17/2007, 08:34 AM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
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Any update on the tank?
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  #13  
Old 12/18/2007, 01:24 AM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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I did a total of about 37% water change (i have an excel sheet that calculates real water change % when doing multiple small changes) 2-10% at a time spread out over about 6 hrs, syphoning out anything dead i could find as i went. it seems like i have a couple of surviving bristle worms to re-populate the tank. i also found a couple snails that survived, and my mated saddle back clowns survived, but it appears that all of my other fish/inverts are toast.

the water is mostly clear now, and my clowns are breathing much easier, but i am worried because my ammonia level is starting to climb. i figured it would come because there is die off within the tank that i couldnt get find/get out. ammonia is up to about .25 and will hopefully level off there. i have a good bit of activated carbon right now to help, should i get some of the ammonia buster stuff to minimize the cycle that is happening?

death count: 8-10 zoo frags, 2 ricordias, 1 small frogspawn, a couple small sps, a bubble tip and curly que anem, 1 tailspoted blenny, 1 blue n gold blenny, 1 green chromis, 3 mushrooms (nothing left)

$ death count: 300-350

p.s. i never directly added dry kalkwasser to the tank. if my method was not described clearly enough i would be more than happy to make a detailed post as to what i did.
  #14  
Old 12/18/2007, 09:34 AM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
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How high is ammonia now?
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  #15  
Old 12/21/2007, 12:08 PM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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sorry i don't update more, i have barely had enough time to take care of the tank and still make it to work on time. Ammonia peaked at a little less than .5 and is back down in the neighborhood of .25, clowns still alive and kicking (or finning i should say). nitrite has not become detectable yet but i am sure is will show up soon with the ammonia dropping pretty good in the last 36hrs.

macro algae is growing all over the place from the vast amount of nutrients in the water as was expected. if i look really hard i can find a pod here and there, and with the fuge i am designing it should jump start their population once i get it up and running.

thanks for all the support and help!!!
  #16  
Old 12/21/2007, 07:06 PM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
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Don't worry a bit about nitrite. It is nontoxic in marine systems.
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  #17  
Old 01/02/2008, 02:28 PM
rjryerson rjryerson is offline
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Quote:
or 3 tablespoons of dry calcium hydroxide
Do you mean to say that you are adding dry calcium hydroxide to your tank? If so, that could have something to do with your ailments.

-Rick
  #18  
Old 01/02/2008, 03:14 PM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by matt_54351

p.s. i never directly added dry kalkwasser to the tank. if my method was not described clearly enough i would be more than happy to make a detailed post as to what i did.
 

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