Prepared Kent SW has a Alk of 0.6 dkh. Is this normal for SW mixes? - Page 2

IBASSFSH · #26 02/10/2006, 12:02 AM

Hello Everyone.

Sorry to report that Kent Marine has had some production problems with their salt. We have had some reports of situations that led us to test their salt mix.

200 gallon buckets that I have in stock are testing right out of the bucket with a calcium reading of 470. A little higher than what it should but would be OK.

But the dkh is testing 1.9 right out of the bucket. And that's a problem!

Everyone with 200 gallon buckets needs to be testing their tank and the salt mix out of the bucket to see if you have a problem. Do not have anything worked out with anyone about what I am going to be doing about this. This is a problem that I have just figured out today.

I do have Kent 50g bags in stock that are testing OK. The calcium is a little high (470) but the dkh is 9.6. I have about 24 bags of Kent left that I will be selling but the buckets I will be trying to send back.

I am in the process of finding another brand of salt to carry. At this point (today) because of the way this has gone down with Kent, I will no longer carry Kent products.
I have made contact with a higher line of salt but it will be much more expensive. I will keep you posted on that. In the meantime, I suspect I will fall back on Instant Ocean. I expect we will also still carry IO salt as a choice between this higher end salt I am looking at.

I am very sorry for any problems this may have caused anyone. But, I am also dealing with it as well. I have had some problems that I now believe may have been salt related. I will keep you posted on the situation.

James Tucker

James Tucker
Exotic Tropicals
115 N. Dixieland Rd. # 28
Rogers, Ar 72756
479-636-8265 Phone
exotictropicals@sbcglobal.net

Hello everyone,

I am sending back all of my unopened Kent salt buckets tomorrow, does anyone have any of the buckets left that are unopened with the yellow lettering? If so bring those back and I will give you credit for those.

For those of you who may have a opened bucket of Kent salt with the yellow lettering (also has a plastic bag with a twist tie) you can bring that back to the store as well. For the ones that are opened I do not have anything worked out yet as to how you will be compensated yet for the bad salt. Once I get credit for all of the unopened ones I will be able to work on that.

Now for the really good news! Tropic Marin salt has landed. It is in the store.

A little more than what we are use to paying but I will continue to carry another brand of salt to give everyone an option. Probably Instant Ocean.

Tropic Marin
50 gallon box $29.95
200 gallon bucket $89.95
200 gallon pro reef bucket $99.95
300 gallon bag $125.00

I am very sorry for the problems that this may have caused anyone, but it has affected me as well. And I am not happy with the way Kent has handled this situation. The short version is I called Kent and spoke to someone and told them they had a problem with the salt in 200 gallon buckets. That same person at Kent responded to an email from one of our customers who lives in Springfield and in his reply stated that Kent was not aware of any problems with their salt. Even though 1 week prior to that email I had spoke to this person on the phone and told him they had a problem. He knew their was a problem and was not honest about what was going on. Things may change in the future, but as of now, I will no longer carry Kent. I hope you will support us in this boycott of Kent products.

Sincerely,

James Tucker

James Tucker
Exotic Tropicals
115 N. Dixieland Rd. # 28
Rogers, Ar 72756
479-636-8265 Phone
exotictropicals@sbcglobal.net

I hope the owner does not mind me posting this, but this is great when a store realizes there is a problem with a problem with a product that they sell.

aquaconnect · #27 02/13/2006, 10:00 PM

Well, the comp items came, but I didn't receive the new replacement bucket of salt that was promised. I got 4X16oz bottles of Con. Calcium, 4X16oz bottles of dkh buffer and 4X16oz bottles of Coral-Vite. What a rip off! These products don't cost squat in the first place, and I told them I does ESV only anyway during the "quizing" I got from them. Way to drop the ball Kent Marine!!!! I guess there promises are evident now!!!!! I will never use these products, nor support/purchase Kent Marine any longer. That's so sad.

Habib · #28 02/14/2006, 02:33 PM

FYI, another brand (IO) seems to have (again?) a very high alkalinity.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=769081

I think a single test of each bag or bucket before use in the aquarium might be a good idea.

BTW I'm not saying this because I'm a manufacturer of test kits.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #29 02/14/2006, 02:48 PM

Maybe the IO guys used up the worldwide supply of bicarbonate, leaving none for Kent.

Habib · #30 02/14/2006, 03:55 PM

OMG! That is really funny!

Billybeau1 · #31 02/14/2006, 04:15 PM

Hi Habib, My current bucket of IO which is just about finished is testing a consistent 11 dkh @ 1.023 78deg. (with your test kit)

Habib · #32 02/14/2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billybeau1
Hi Habib, My current bucket of IO which is just about finished is testing a consistent 11 dkh @ 1.023 78deg. (with your test kit)

I would test it (with my test) every hour just to be sure the salt's alk is not changing rapidly.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #33 02/14/2006, 04:49 PM

Especially in the winter. Those buckets take on extra alkalinity to keep warm.

Billybeau1 · #34 02/14/2006, 04:53 PM

I just put in an order for 10 Salifert Alk test kits. I'm gonna be a busy guy

IBASSFSH · #35 02/14/2006, 08:44 PM

Thats hilarious!!! I should be checking all of my water change water, but its a hard habit to get back into. I always want to take for granted the salt manufacturers have good quality systems in place to protect our hobby/investments.
At the very least their good name should require strick quality guidelines. Man who can you trust other than Randy and Habib!!

Billybeau1 · #36 02/15/2006, 10:04 AM

All kidding aside, I do test more than most I suppose. It's become my Sunday morning ritual. My tank gets tested once a week and I test my new mix about every other water change. It's teaching me alot about what affects my water chemistry. To tell you the truth, I'm still not convinced that there is some seperation (settling) in our salts. I'm thinking as you get towards the bottom of the bucket there may be more of one thing and not so much of others. I have yet to prove this but I'm working on it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #37 02/15/2006, 12:16 PM

It is certainly possible that the salt buckets get layered with some ingredients settling to the bottom based on particle size and/or density. I've not seen any such studies, but it would be very interesting if true.

Beverly · #38 02/16/2006, 05:02 PM

Someone brought this thread to my attention this morning, so I did the following before breakfast:

Quote:

Mixed up 2g of RO/DI water (heated and aerated since Sunday, Feb 12) with Kent salt from one pail from our recent Edmonton group order (one 24 pail pallet). All of our pails have a yellow Kent logo. Salt in pails is in a sealed bag, which I have never seen before with any salt I've used (IO and Kent) since I started reefkeeping back in the mid-90s.

Results:

dKH - 8.5 (using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit)
Temp - 79 F (using Hagen stick on tank temp gauge)
SG - 1.026 (using refractometer)
pH - 8.26 (using a Pinpoint pH probe and Hanna Instrument pH controller digital readout)

Was still in jammies, had to feed three tanks of fish, an indoor aviary of finches (and myself), then tend to our ball python. Did not have time to test Mg or Ca.

I use a lot of Kent products. It's unfortunate that Kent made the alk mistake in the first place, but not to fully own up to it is poor business practice, imo.

However, I do recall a time in the past when IO made a similar mistake in their salt formulation, though I don't know if IO handled the situation any better then than Kent is handling this one now.

Cheers, all

jmicky41 · #39 02/16/2006, 10:37 PM

I just tested a "yellow" bucket and also got an alkalinity of well under 1meq. So I figured I would look around the chemistry forum if this was discussed and sure enough here it is. I sure don't have any use for liquid calcium, coral vite, betta water, or whatever else they might comp me with.

BrianPlankis · #40 02/17/2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmicky41
I just tested a "yellow" bucket and also got an alkalinity of well under 1meq. So I figured I would look around the chemistry forum if this was discussed and sure enough here it is. I sure don't have any use for liquid calcium, coral vite, betta water, or whatever else they might comp me with.

It was bad that their QC people missed this, it was worse that they then try to cover it up once it is public knowledge that there is a problem and it is terrible that they comp you with a lot of unrelated products. Why not just send you a bucket of Kent salt with normal Alk to replace it?

The right thing to do would be to:

1. Admit there is a problem and give out the batch numbers or some way to ID the bad buckets. Or have people send in a sample of salt and a copy of the receipt.

2. Arrange for replacement buckets of salt for those that bought it, not unrelated products. I mean, if I bought a TV and it had a manufacturing defect, how many companies would send me a VCR to correct their mistake? Just doesn't make sense to me.

3. Fix the manufacturing defect so they don't have to replace expensive buckets of salt.

Brian

jmicky41 · #41 02/17/2006, 10:46 PM

Cirolanid, I haven't contacted them yet. They haven't sent me any products, I just don't want my $65 bucket of salt to be replaced by some of Kent Marines products I have no use for. Or with products of questionable value. If they don't want to ship out a bucket of salt, something like an RO membrane, carbon,GFO, or kalk would suit me fine.

Beverly · #42 02/24/2006, 11:24 AM

FWIW, here is our local BB's thread on this issue. Has contact names and addresses to Kent in the later pages ...

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22871

umpire · #43 02/24/2006, 05:28 PM

I will try and post some information tomorrow that many of you may find interesting about the Kent salt ordeal. Stay tuned.

umpire · #44 02/26/2006, 07:56 PM

This is the first e-mail I sent to Kent Marine on Friday, 27 Jan 2006 16:32

John,

I have customers that are having problems with calcium and alkalinity and finally I told them to check their fresh saltwater for their water change to see what those numbers where. Two different customers gave me very similar reports. Calcium at 470 and the dkh ONE drop an the color goes to endpoint.

Pretty much I dismissed this to the (IN)ability of them to properly test their water and I went to go test mine. And to my surprise my readings where 470 on calcium and 1.9 dkh. NOT meq/l (1.9x2.8 = 5.32 dkh). THE DKH WAS 1.9! The calcium is also to high!

These are the reasons I stopped using Instant Ocean salt. Now I have the same problem with a salt that I have tauted as the best. I am not happy. And I am not some just getting started wet behind the ears store. We have been at this for over 10 years. I guess I won't scream to loud till I have your side of the story, but a word of caution here, if I don't like some of the answers I will drop Kent Salt like a hot potato!

Eagerly waiting to here from you.

James Tucker
Exotic Tropicals
115 N. Dixieland Rd. # 28
Rogers, Ar 72756
479-636-8265 Phone
exotictropicals@sbcglobal.net

THIS IS THE SECOND E-MAIL I SENT TO KENT MARINE ON MONDAY, 30 JAN 2006 13:14

This is James Tucker @ Exotic Tropicals Aquarium Shop in Rogers, Arkansas.

I sent an email in to you guys this weekend. It was regarding your salt. Has anyone received this? Worked on this? Have any answers yet?

Please contact me.

James Tucker

THIS IS THE CUSTOMER SPEAKING ABOUT THE SALT AND HIS RESPONSE FROM KENT MARINE. A WEEK AFTER I HAD SENT KENT E-MAILS TELLING THEM OF THEIR SALT PROBLEMS AND SPEAKING TO SOMEONE ON THE PHONE DIRECTLY. THE PERSON I SPOKE WITH AND THE PERSON THAT SENT THIS EMAIL ONE WEEK LATER WAS THE SAME PERSON.

I case some of you didn't hear, some Kent salt is having problems. It's testing super high in calcium (470 and up) and low in dkh (1.9 and lower). Kent's rep. is bogus, so watch out if you are purchasing thier products. Here is the exact letter I received from them, after a retailer who spoke with this same exact person directly told him otherwise, and infact the exact opposite of what this letter reads:

Hello XXX,
Thank you for contacting Kent Marine. Contrary to information that you have received, we were not aware of any problem with our salt mix, and certainly would not have allowed it to be distributed in the event that a problem had been discovered. Kent Marine has existed for well over a decade and is not in the profession of misleading hobbyists or marketing faulty products. We also pride ourselves on customer service, attempting to resolve issues with the customer to the very best of our abilities, regardless of how long it takes to do so. The tone of your e-mail suggests that you have reason to feel that reality is other than that which I have just described; I will be happy to address any past issues that you have had, if indeed there are any.

We would appreciate it very much if you will send a 1-lb. sample of the salt to us for analysis in our laboratory. There, we will mix it with purified water and test the alkalinity, pH, and calcium concentration of water that has been mixed to a specific gravity of 1.023 g/cm3. We will then report the results of our analysis to you. If a problem is found with the salt, we will make arrangements to compensate you in some fashion. Please understand that this is the manner in which we investigate all claims regarding improper performance of a product. The address to ship the salt sample to is as follows:

Kent Marine
Attn: XXX
1100 Northpoint Parkway
Acworth, GA 30102

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter. Should you have any additional questions or comments in the meantime, I may be reached at the contact number or e-mail address listed below my signature.

Now my 2 cents,
I have never before posted on RC. This has gone on and I have sit and watched untill I have had enough.

I told Kent Marine via E-mails they had a salt problem. Someone from Kent Marine called me and we spoke politley about their problem. I asked him POINT BLANK if this was a manufacturing problem. His response was "probably, but we will have to investigate. I said that's fine, "just let me know". Then one week later he sends an email to one of our customers saying that Kent does not know of any problem and does not do business that way. I would have stood beside Kent Marine through this ordeal. But when they lied about it. It became clear that Kent is driven soley by profit and not by what is right and wrong. I am done with Kent Marine. I hope you will read this and understand that like I said before I have never posted on RC, but I had to say my piece. And I hope those of you who read this will support companies your are comfortable with.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

James L. Tucker

Randy Holmes-Farley · #45 02/26/2006, 08:09 PM

Some Kent reps are RC members. You might PM them and see if they want to comment here. For example: member "Kent Marine"

aquaconnect · #46 02/26/2006, 08:33 PM

I think that at least this is now in a public forum. I have no need to hear anymore from them really. All of these posts are the proof and really don't know if they could add to it. The reason Kent did not send me salt to replace mine bad batchs and sent the supplements instead is because they don't have it to replace. I'm with the Umpire on this one. I'd like to hear from anyone else who's had problems, because this isn't a single select event that occured. It has happened in many other places, let's hear what Kent has told those of you in this same situation!!

aquaconnect · #47 02/26/2006, 08:37 PM

I just looked up Kent Marine to PM them and their last post was on 11/18/2004, so it doesn't look like they keep up to date with RC anyway. Maybe they should.

IBASSFSH · #48 02/26/2006, 09:35 PM

I hope you did not mind me posting your e-mails that you had sent to me James. I was just wanting to let people know about the Kent ordeal. Especially at your level as a business owner.
James Tucker has an awesome coral tank that looked to be heavily damaged by the Kent ordeal. I drive about 1.5 hours to get to his store, just for the high quality and care that he puts into his busines.
It makes me feel good to do business with someone who will warn his customers of potential problems, instead of just trying to make a buck.
Thanks again James

Ralph

umpire · #49 02/26/2006, 10:01 PM

Randy,

With all due respect to you and maybe a thank you for trying, but I have no need to PM ANYONE from Kent Marine. If they wanted to respond to this situation, what could they possibly say.

Integrity is what you do when no one is looking. Kent Marine thought no on was looking. Kent Marine has shown me all I need to now about their integrity, or should I say lack of integrity.

As I said earlier, I would have stood beside Kent through this ordeal. But after I told them they had a problem and then they lied to one of my customers about knowing about it. Why on earth would I need to PM them about this or anything!

Sincerely,

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #50 02/27/2006, 02:08 PM

I had the same problems with my last batch of Kent salt. Lucky for me I purchased it from Drs. Foster Smith. I just got off the phone with a technical rep and she is sending a call tag for both buckets and will credit my account and will cover the cost to ship the replacements. I also pointed her to these threads about the many people having problems with the Kent salt. Thanks Drs.Foster Smith for great customer service!