just how exactly can i get my alk/cal stablize???

[dzhuo]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
It likely will bring down the calcium some, but IME, the alkalinity in IO is plenty high enough (near 4 meq/L/11 dKH in many recent batches).

hmm, that's really rare because the few times (a couple months ago) i have tested it, alk is below 8dkh and cal is @320ppm. anyway, i am going to take some measure tonight and i will post numbers.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe you make yours up to a lower salinity than I do. I target salinity =35 ppt, which has a sg of about 1.0264.

[dzhuo]

oh, that has an impact on alk? i target mine at 1.025.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The initial alkalinity and calcium is directly related to the salinity when using an artificial salt mix. 1.025 is not that much lower, but some folks target even lower levels, and some measurements of salinity may be off.

here's a comparison of how the changes would be manifested:

sg........alkalinity...........calcium
1.0264...11 dKH...........380 ppm
1.025......10.4..............360
1.023......9.6.................330

[MoonSoft]

Gotcha... i would worry aboutmaintaing Ca try dosing with a calcium gluconate that is easy to keep in solution... bring up your levels slowly, and see what your alk does and you Ca does in a day... this might lead you down the path that will point to the direct problem... if you have a lot of organic material in your system it's possible that the oxidation of die off is adding acid to the system faster than you can stabilze.... a good example.... an algae bloom...

Another good example.. dying tankmates.. or a biofilter crash.. these things decay, and add adids to the system that will affect the ionic balance if it's widespread enough.....

Just a thought... hope this might give SOME insight

[dzhuo]

so at 8:30pm, i added 20ml of part A and 20ml of part B. 1.5 hours later, i measured water parameters:

alk: 9.3
cal: 380
ph: 8.3

before i got too excited. are the numbers accurate? i mean it's only about 1.5 hours after i added the b-ionic, is that long enough for an accurate reading?

after than that, i think i might have found the perfect balance. 2 days ago, the numbers were:

cal: 380
alk: 7.9

after 20ml daily for 2 days, cal haven't moved a bit. alk, on the other hand, has raised to 9.3. question: how can i raise cal to 430ppm? i mean can i add more part B or should i always add equal amount of part A and part B?

MoonSoft,
i am sure my tank has a lot of organic material. the reason why i say this is because i wrap a small filter pad around the intake of a powerhead and it will become dirty very fast. i do replace the filter pad AT LEAST twice a day so those things are physically removed very fast. having said that, i have no algae problem whatsoever. you will have to try very hard to spot a little bit of hair algae. nothing in my tank has died. in fact, my derasa clam is growing like crazy! it has grown more than 1" in less than a week. the porite coral which was 40% dead when i first got it is recovering fast as well. the chaeto in my fuge, however, shows no grow in the last couple of month. they used to grow very fast when the tank is new. coraline algae has also almost died off for unknown reason. they now only grows in the plastic area (like the powerhead). if you are interested, here are some pictures of my tank:

http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/sho...0&ppuser=11967

thanks!

[MoonSoft]

do you have a Ca reactor?

[dzhuo]

no. i have a 10G tank so a Ca reactor is not something i want to invest yet. if i have a bigger tank (my next tank will be 100G), i will absolutely go for a Ca reactor.

thanks!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ca try dosing with a calcium gluconate that is easy to keep in solution...

I'm not sure which you mean but I'd be careful about dosing calcium gluconate or calcium polygluconate (Seachem's calcium is the latter) because they add alkalinity as well as calcium.

before i got too excited. are the numbers accurate? i mean it's only about 1.5 hours after i added the b-ionic, is that long enough for an accurate reading?

Probably. As soon as it is mixed in, the tests will be correct. Think of it like adding a dye. As soon as the whole tank was equally colored, it is mixed in enough for testing.

after 20ml daily for 2 days, cal haven't moved a bit. alk, on the other hand, has raised to 9.3. question: how can i raise cal to 430ppm? i mean can i add more part B or should i always add equal amount of part A and part B?

It sounds like things are going well.

To raise the calcium, boost just the calcium part as per the calculator:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

[dzhuo]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

It sounds like things are going well.

i think so too. it's starting to stablize.

To raise the calcium, boost just the calcium part as per the calculator:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

right but then should i:

plan A:
* add 20ml of part A and 20ml of part B
* and then add whatever amount of part B required to raise cal

or plan B:
* add 20ml of part A and of part B required to raise cal

i guess, can i add different amount of part A and part B or should i always go with plan A with equal amount of part A and B AND THEN add more part B?

thanks!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Plan A sounds fine.

[dzhuo]

didn't take measure tonight. added 20ml of part A and 31ml of part B.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds good. I don't think that one needs to measure every day.

[dzhuo]

i am worry about alk keep getting up and cal dropping down. base on the last couple measure, it looks like 20ml of part A might be a little too much for alk.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Then reduce the addition a bit.

[dzhuo]

which part?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you are still in the process of boosting the calcium, then just drop the alkalinity part. If calcium has arrived where you approximately want it, I'd stick to equal doses so drop both.

[dzhuo]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
If you are still in the process of boosting the calcium, then just drop the alkalinity part.

if i drop the alk part, alk will continue to drop on a daily basis?

If calcium has arrived where you approximately want it, I'd stick to equal doses so drop both.

stick to equal doses so drop both? what do you mean?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if i drop the alk part, alk will continue to drop on a daily basis?


If you are adding less than the demand, it will continue to drop daily until it reaches the low to mid 2 meq/L, where calcification will slow and eventually stop. If you are approximately meeting demand, it will be fairly stable at some reasonable alkalinity. If you are adding more than the demand, it will rise until abiotic precipitation matches the addition.

stick to equal doses so drop both? what do you mean?

I would make the one time correction to calcium by adding extra. Then stick to exactly equal doses (whatever dose you pick to match alkalinity demand) for a very long time. Strongly resist the temptation to jigger the levels every few days. That almost always leads to problems.

[dzhuo]

ok. that makes sense. i will do that. thanks!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good luck.

[MoonSoft]

I have a question about that procedure, if calcium level is corrected and the regeim continues, when would an adjustment be required?

Theoretically if he were to never add any more animals and the calcium consuming organisms just stagnated, then this would work, but with unexpected biotic decay (creating acids), and the additions of more animals (coral), and the growth of existing organisms, the calcium demand would change, so how would this system still work?

[dzhuo]

so i have been adding 15ml of b-ionic part A and part B for a week now. tonight, i took measurement:

alk: 7.2
cal: 410
ph: 8.0

so it looks like 15ml of more than enough to keep my cal up but is not enough to keep alk. what should i do? should i increase the 15ml dosage to say 20ml?

thanks!

[jdieck]

dzhuo:
After reading the four pages of this thread I see you keep trying to balance things up but there got to be something else going on IMO.
I do not think your Alk and Ca consumption is as high as the amounts you have been adding may suggest so I have a feeling that whatever you are adding continues to precipitate even if the water does not seem cloudy.
Can you let us know if you are still adding Kalk mix in addition of the two part B_Ionic?
If so how much of Kalk mix are yoou adding?
That can give me a better idea of the total addition to your system.

[MoonSoft]

I have always found that if you add the alk component first then wait about 30 min and add the calcium component you get better results, you have to have the alk base to hold the calcium in solution