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  #76  
Old 10/04/2007, 09:45 PM
melev melev is offline
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You know I don't like getting all those high-falootin' toys you buy. I prefer to go with the simple approach, with less equipment to fail me.

Still, I have given it some thought recently. This product seems to be doing the job, but I won't know for another week or so.
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  #77  
Old 10/04/2007, 09:51 PM
skydancer skydancer is offline
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I'm actually surprised that you fuge is not keeping the nitrates low. The last time I was there your macro algae was doing great. What's the reason your nitrates are so hi?
I wish I had the space for a fish room. I'd set up a big fuge with all kinds of things in it...
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  #78  
Old 10/04/2007, 10:01 PM
melev melev is offline
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First of all, I was reading my test kit wrong.

Also, I don't export macro nearly enough, which I need to do.
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  #79  
Old 10/04/2007, 11:49 PM
cayars cayars is offline
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Curious Marc, can you comment on how you were reading the test kit wrong?

Maybe somebody else is doing the same thing.

Carlo
  #80  
Old 10/05/2007, 12:13 AM
melev melev is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cayars
Curious Marc, can you comment on how you were reading the test kit wrong?

Maybe somebody else is doing the same thing.

Carlo
I've posted it a few times, but perhaps not in this thread. So I'm glad you asked.

I use the Salifert Nitrate test kit. On the color chart, after you've mixed it 30 seconds and waited 3 minutes, you then compare colors.

If the reading is 10ppm or less, hold the beaker up in front of you, hold the card behind it, find the matching color and then divide that number by 10. If the reading matches 50ppm, (divide by 10 and) the result is 5ppm.

If the reading is higher than 10ppm, place the beaker on the comparison chart and look down. Find the matching color (25, 50, 100ppm).

In my case, I've always looked at it through the side of the beaker, divided by 10 and thought my nitrate was 7.5 -

Before dosing my tank with anything, I got a second opinion by testing my water with a LaMotte kit, and it agreed with the correct way of reading the Salifert kit. Over 50ppm.
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  #81  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:01 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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Marc, how about another oops.

The 8 ml you are dosing now is for 50 to 60 gallons of volume.

I think you have a little more water then that.

If you read the directions again, you may find you are supposed to be dosing like 4 x that much.

It says

Directions:
For each 50-60 gallons (200 Liters) of seawater.
  #82  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:29 AM
melev melev is offline
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I'm going to go read my bottle for the 10th time. Thanks for the correction.
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  #83  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:32 AM
melev melev is offline
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Well, you could be right, but that isn't how I'm reading the bottle. I'd really like to touch base with the mfg to see what they have to say about that.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...ves_azno3.html
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  #84  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:33 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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It can get confusing sometimes.
  #85  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:36 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev
Well, you could be right, but that isn't how I'm reading the bottle. I'd really like to touch base with the mfg to see what they have to say about that.
Well think of it this way. The mfg has no idea how big your tank is, so they base all dosage in 50-60 gallon increments.
  #86  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:40 AM
melev melev is offline
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That could very well be true. However, reading how the directions are listed on the bottle, it seems to be x drops per day per 50/60 gallons of water. The next section or paragraph states 8ml (1/4 fl oz) each day thereafter. Hmm. So really it should be 1 1/4 fl oz each day. Glad I ordered two bottles. I may even need Alex's bottles as well!

A bottle holds 8 fl oz (240 ml) so it is only 6 days worth at that dosage. Wow.
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  #87  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:43 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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Well Marc, please double check this as I'd hate to be wrong and nuke your tank.

Thats just the way I read it.

You do have a lot of water volume.
  #88  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:47 AM
melev melev is offline
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I can't find a source to contact the makers of this product. I've tried a google search and entering BaysideAquariumSupply.com

Okay, tried again and found this link:
http://www.inlandseasproducts.com/wholesale.htm

I'll try to contact them somehow.
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  #89  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:55 AM
melev melev is offline
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Email sent to sales@baysideaqua.com
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  #90  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:55 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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You could just go to the Marine Depot site and post the question there. They should have an answer for you pretty quick.
  #91  
Old 10/05/2007, 02:02 AM
melev melev is offline
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I'll email them and post it on their forum here as well. Thanks.
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  #92  
Old 10/05/2007, 06:08 AM
cayars cayars is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
Almost exactly true Carlo and you reading into things again that are not there. Those levels Marc has are way beyond any affect as far as Nitrate up take goes and any limiting effect for any form of marine life using nitrate. Excessive levels way above any normal or even above normal liming will not be affect buy rapid drops. We are not talking here about dropping them to ZERO, another issue. If you want to argue 1ppm, as being excessive and dropping them quickly them maybe. And remember that data in the article is from lab tests and is not from full blown reef tanks, another whole issue.
Boomer, just happened to trip over something that you may want to check out. Kallmeyer, 2004.

"In rather old tanks with higher nutrient concentrations, the corals were well adapted to these conditions and the sudden drop caused massive die-off of colonies that had been growing well over decades. The corals starved and became susceptible to parasites and diseases. If the corals did not starve to death, the parasites killed them."


Marc,
It's definitely per 50-60 gallons of water volume (actually 200 liters) as Billybeau1 suggested.

I think this is part of the reason some larger tank people don't get results from the products. They aren't adding enough to the tank.

Marc, thanks for the clarification on the testing procedure. Haven't seen it before.

Carlo

Last edited by cayars; 10/05/2007 at 06:34 AM.
  #93  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:43 PM
tfp tfp is offline
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yep, its 8ml per 50-60g until your nitrates are where you want them. then you can reduce/ween the system off of it.

at the 8ml per 50-60g level, your skimmer will really kick into overdrive and filter socks (if used) will get dirty fast.
  #94  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:46 PM
melev melev is offline
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My Marine Depot arrived today, so I don 't have to worry about running out now. The skimmer is pulling out a go head of foam each day now.
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  #95  
Old 10/05/2007, 01:56 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
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Carlo that means nothing and speaks nothing about NO3 in the 30, 40 or 60 ppm and dropping it in half. You need to look at the levels HE is talking about. What are they ? Why did you not post a link ?? Do you know how many hits you will get on Kallmeyer, 2004 ?

And he is talking about introducing Zeovit filter system. You are taking a quote out of contents. He does not define anything and you are comparing apples and oranges.

The major advantage of these filters is also their major danger: They remove ammonium very rapidly and extremely efficiently. Although ammonium concentrations are never high (at least they should not be), it is a very important component in the nitrogen cycle. By removing it almost completely, all other processes will be influenced as well. When these filters entered the market, some people underestimated their effects on the overall chemistry of the tank. ***In rather old tanks with higher nutrient concentrations, the corals were well adapted to these conditions and the sudden drop caused massive die-off of colonies that had been growing well over decades. The corals starved and became susceptible to parasites and diseases. If the corals did not starve to death, the parasites killed them.*** It seems that tanks that have started with Zeolite filtration run very well and without major problems, while old established tanks are much more sensitive to it.


I'll say it again 1,000's and 1,000's of people have done large and multi- water changes with out issue. Again, you are trying to force only your opinin, as if noboby elses counts.
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  #96  
Old 10/05/2007, 05:56 PM
cayars cayars is offline
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I understand what you're saying Boomer but other people have experienced problems. I know I've seen it myself. You can even read about it here at RC with people dropping their nitrates to fast with vodka, sugar or other "fuels" made by Zeovit, Prodibio & Ultralith. Some of these people are not even running the Zeolites just using the "fuel". It's the same principle as AZNO3 in what it does.

melev, have you figured a game plan yet on your dosage? Are you going to ramp it up to recommended levels or continue the steady course you have been on since your nitrates are already dropping?

I'd almost think, maybe doing another incremental increase but not worry about the recommendations since it's working for you at the present levels. What do you think?

Carlo
  #97  
Old 10/05/2007, 09:14 PM
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Man this going to be a costly thing.... Marc you think some vodka will work? It is a big thread about it some where in RC.
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  #98  
Old 10/05/2007, 10:07 PM
melev melev is offline
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Carlo, I'm actually thinking about using a weaker dose daily for now as the NO3 drops. Since the recommended amount for my water volume is 40 ml, I'd rather dose 30 ml daily and let it come down a little more slowly. While your quote was about zeolites originally, I do believe I have corals that are used to high nitrates and would prefer to bring it down somewhat gradually so that I don't lose colonies I've had for years.

I'm hoping to see greater growth once those numbers are where they should have been all this time.

Steve - I'm not willing to take that risk at this time. It just seems too experimental to me, and I've heard from a few people about how they end up dealing with dinoflagellates after adding vodka (sugars) to their tank.

If I can get the nitrates down to a respectable level that my DSB, LR, and refugium can handle, I'd prefer to do so without creating a new problem to deal with.
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  #99  
Old 10/06/2007, 12:15 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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I like the way you think Marc.

Someone said patience is a virtue. I think they were talking about reef tanks.
  #100  
Old 10/06/2007, 05:48 AM
cayars cayars is offline
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Marc, I think the vodka thing works and have used it but I use a mix of different 5 different carbon sources. You wouldn't want to use it in combination with AZNO3 however and would want to get your system off AZNO3 before even thinking about using that approach.

I'd much rather see you go with a sulfur denitrator instead as it would serve you long term.

Just like with the AZNO3 you should take it slow and many (not all) of the problems people run into with vodka/sugar is because they dose way to much or ramp up the dosage to fast. It would be like you adding a full bottle or close to it of AZNO3 at one time. The systems changes so fast things don't have a chance to adjust properly. They don't check silica and other important checks and boom...

It's like aspirin, people read the label and see the dosage is 2 tablets but they think they're super human or something so they take 3 or 4 because it "must be better or work faster that way".

Slow and steady is the key IMHO.

Marc, I didn't go back and read the thread to look for this but I'm wondering if you N&P are way out of balance and might be why your macro isn't helping as much as it could be. What's your current phosphate levels?

Are you still using Lanth. to drop phosphates or are you using a GFO product now?

Carlo
 

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