Lab testing Subcription service!

[Labman48076]

was just looking though my new issue of Aquarium Fish Mag in there I saw a add for http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/ sounds really cool you can get a weekly or monthly that's the one I am thinking about trying about $23 a month they run 15 lab test and send you a pdf report. all you have to do is pay and send them your water.. lol sounds really intresting trying to find out if I can try it just once but I think it would be worth it to once a month get a lab report. they test the fallowing seems pretty sweet to me oh there is a promo offer mentioned code is the code but I can't find where to put the code I call them tomorrow also conserned about the 3 day shipping time would this effect the results? ph, Ammonia

A panel is our series of 14 tests run on a single water sample submission.

- Ammonia
- Nitrite
- Nitrate
- Phosphate
- Silica
- Alkalinity
- Calcium
- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Strontium
- Molybdenum
- Iodine
- Copper
- Boron

[HowardW]

Interesting concept.....let us know if you get the promo code to work and what it is.

[billweld]

I use a company called Natureef. They test 26 parameters for $20.00 I am very satisfied with their reports. I believe the founder is a Phd. Chemist. Natureef.com or
Coral Reef Research Inc. 5098 NW 37th Ave. Unit A Taramac Fl 33309. They will fax and mail results promptly.

[billweld]

They will preform single tests - no contract.

[PatrickJ]

thats pretty cool

[Labman48076]

I did notice that they don't test Strontium and allot of things they test I have no way of adding small does if needed of course on the other hand I have no way to test allot of that either. so it be intresting if nothing else.. got a reply from the 1st mentioned service here it is i think looking at the two services the 1st is more usful for aquarium use

Hello Dave,

Thank you for your interest in our service and for sharing your research with your fellow reef club members.

In regards to the Promo Code, I was unable to resolve the issue immediately but I have been informed that the web guys will fix that as quickly as possible. The offer was for a free Aqua Medic gift (100ml Anti-Red, 100ml Plancto, 100ml Biovit, Aqua Breed 200, Tweezers, or Reef Construct). I can certainly be helpful should you be interested in subscribing before that feature is repaired, just let me know.

In regards to equipment in use for the aquarium water testing, here is what I gathered this morning.

Hach DR series Spectrophotometers and AutoTitrators
Denver Instrument 200 series meters
Jennco & Denver Instrument Ion Specific Probes

All equipment is tested against reference solutions on a weekly basis and re-calibrated as is necessary. In the case of parameters checked by the Spectrophotometers, the unit is additionally zeroed out before each test with a sample of your water.

We do not sell or share our client list, as I'm sure you both understand and appreciate. This is a relatively new service but I can tell you that we now serve a fair cross-section of hobyists whom have sited a variety of reasons for signing up. Some use our analysis to benchmark their own testing efforts, some use it to establish and verify maintenance and dosing routines, and some see it as an insurance policy.

The collection process is rather simple, just fill the bottles with your water, close it tightly and drop it in the mail...we get it in 2 days and test it immediately. You mentioned in your question the effect of die-off shifting the accuracy of the ammonia during transit. Let me share with you the answer to this quesiton as passed on to me by a staff marine biologist here at AWT:


As far as ammonia in the sample is concerned, it is true that any organisms in the sample bottles that are collected, should they die in transit, would contribute ammonia to the sample. However, there are a few things to consider here. First, the home ammonia test that you are likely currently using, if it is a high quality test kit, reads in increments of 0.1ppm. The equipment that we are using is 1000 times as accurate, but the acceptable range for ammonia is up to 0.05mg/L. What this means is that while your test kit may read zero, you could actually be anywhere from zero up to around 0.08. This is an example of the limitations of home test kits. Given that our equipment is considerably more sensitive, it will almost always find some ammonia in any sample, but unless the water sample you pulled came from the interstitial spaces in your substrate, or contained such an enormous amount of bacteria that your water is cloudy, the ammonia reading will still be within acceptable parameters, and the effect of die-off during shipping could be “waved-off” as negligible. The results that you get would still be 100 to 1000 times as accurate as a home test kit.

Please understand that were we looking at this service from an aquatic toxicology paradigm, there would be an extensive amount of sample preparation, including micron filtration, acid Ph fixation, and sample refrigeration. This kind of service would be extremely cost prohibitive for regular testing. This is not what we are providing. We are providing a level of water analysis that is considerably more accurate than what is available to hobbyists using home test kits, recognizing that the margin for error will still leave the testing results considerably more precise that what you get at home, while maintaining a price point that is within the range of the serious hobbyist.

I hope this helps Dave and please let me know if anything needs more clarification or if any other questions come up as you share this with your group.

Thanks again for your time considering and discussing our service!

Jeremy Redmond
Customer Service
AquariumWaterTesting.com

[bertoni]

I wouldn't expect the ammonia or pH readings to be particularly useful, since the values are likely to change. Nitrite and possibly nitrate would likely change as well, but probably not significantly in and established tank. Calcium and alkalinity might shift a bit, but that could be handled at the lab. I don't know enough to tell what other precipitation might be possible.

The service might be an interesting way to get some idea of how accurate test kits are, if they're careful with their equipment and it's of sufficient accuracy. That might be an interesting research project.

[PatrickJ]

really this is interesting. this could be a big thing. they probably make bank off it.

[HowardW]

Ok, I subscribed to their monthly service and received my kit.

I did this so I can see what they get on my calcium and if it agrees with my Seachem kit which Billybeau keeps telling me is off

I'm also interested to see what they get on my phosphate, potassium, and borate since I've been using Seachem salt for a long time which is high in borate.

[Labman48076]

in a few days after you get the results back trying to get a few people to go in on the 100 dollar kits with my local club to get more results.. to bad they aren't taking it too serious. one guy wants to check Md's burgers to see why they can stay fresh for a year. geesh

[HowardW]

Ok, I just got back my results! Here they are:




Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l
Tested: 0.010 mg/l

Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.




Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l
Tested: 0.003 mg/l

Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected.



Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l
Tested: 0.910 mg/l

Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/l in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.




Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l
Tested: 0.041 mg/l

Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/l.



Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 3.747 mg/l

Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium.


Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 398 mg/l

Your potassium level is within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current water change and chemical additive schedule. Potassium is an important constituent of seawater, being found in almost the same concentration as calcium. Potassium is important for neurological functions in fishes, as well as being a critical plant nutrient required by zooxanthellae and macro algae.


Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 464 mg/l

Your calcium levels are too high. We recommend that you suspend any calcium additions until the level stabilizes. If you have a calcium reactor, it may need to be adjusted. You may also need to adjust the alkalinity of the water. Maintaining the correct calcium levels is critical to the growth of corals and coralline algae. Fish also require calcium to maintain their health. High levels of calcium can cause dangerous fluctuations in other important elements, as well as in the alkalinity and pH of the water.




Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l
Tested: 11.374 mg/l

Your boron (as borate) levels are too high. We recommend the suspension of any buffer containing borate salts until levels stabilize. You may also wish to perform a partial water change. Borate is an important part of the water buffering system, and it helps keep calcium levels stable. An overabundance of borate can cause dangerous fluctuations in alkalinity and pH, as well as causing inaccurate calcium test readings.



Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l
Tested: 0.311 mg/l

Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria.



Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l
Tested: 5.490 mg/l

Your strontium levels are within the acceptable range of values. We recommend continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.




Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l
Tested: 1277 mg/l

Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.



Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l
Tested: 0.106 mg/l

Your Iodine levels are too high. We recommend a reduction in chemical additives containing Iodine. You may also wish to reduce the feeding of any shellfish-type, or red-algae based foods, and increase protein skimming. Iodide is known to be required by many soft corals, marine macro algae, and is a component of many of the colorful pigments in stony corals. Iodine is a strong oxidizer however, and an overabundance can damage coral tissues, and has been implicated in algal blooms.



Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l
Tested: 0.036 mg/l

Your copper levels are too high. We recommend the use of activated carbon to reduce this level. You should also use only RO/DI water for make-up/top-off water, as most copper that gets into tanks comes from copper water pipes in the home. It is also an ingredient in many fish medications. Copper is an important trace mineral for metabolic processes in many marine organisms. However, levels above 0.05 are toxic to almost all invertebrates and some fish species.





Alkalinity (dkh)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l
Tested: 2.657 meq/l

Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters.

Thank you for using AquariumWaterTesting.com

[HowardW]

Can you guess which salt I use by looking at my Borate results?


And I'm not sure why my silicates are so high, I only use 0 TDS RO/DI water. Maybe I need one of those high silicate removing DI cartridges? I also think I need to ease off on the bi-weekly Iodide dosing

[Boomer]

Ah SeaChem.............

Howard ask them this, what test are they using this for Hach DR series Spectrophotometer. And do they know seawater is not the same thing as FW when testing many parameters with spectro's. If they are using this meter and it is not set to a seawater std and no one makes a seawater stds, some of those test will be off and some will not. For example, NO3, NO2- will be in error but Si, Cu and PO4 will be fine. I have talked to the HACH senior chemist in charge of spectro's about this.

Tell them we need to est for Bromide and can they do that

Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l

The std is 412

Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l

Where did they get this from ? It is .00015 mg/ l . They are way off and by two decimal points. Std seawater is given as 2.4 nmol / kg and that is 2.4 nmol x 63.55 MW= .000152 mg / l

Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l

It is .01 not .100


Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 3.747 mg/l

It is ~ 2.8 ppm they are way off.

[HowardW]

<<< And do they know seawater is not the same thing as FW when testing many parameters with spectro's. If they are using this meter and it is not set to a seawater std and no one makes a seawater stds, some of those test will be off and some will not. >>>


Well Boomer I sure as hell hope they would know that

So perhaps my silicates are not that high after all, and I think my molybdenum must be high from dosing iron which also contains Mo. I'm not sure though how my phosphate read so low at 0.041 as I dose DT's pretty heavy and other foods nearly every day for all my fan worms and other filter feeders.

Now that I just switched over to ME Crystal Sea Bioassay perhaps my borate levels will drop over time also?

[HowardW]

Boomer, Is elevated Mo anything to be concerned about?

[Boomer]

It is but just leave it. Plants use a lot of it.

[boxfishpooalot]

well that was cool and interesting. How much did it cost?

[HowardW]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
well that was cool and interesting. How much did it cost?

It was around $22.00 and that included them sending me out the little plastic bottles inside a prepaid priority mail box.

[Boomer]

Now that is cheap and worth it It anything store sample of your water in a closed glass clean bottle at room temp and then you can ref your test kits against the results.

[Labman48076]

this is what I wanted to do what you said I honestly thought about signing up for the subcription service but I am just not ready to commit to that I want to get the 99 dollar kits and split the cost with a few reefers and then on the day I am submitting the test test my take the same day I think I have 9 of those test I can do and I use Sera kits I also have acces to Salifert I know one guy locally that really wants to do it I need two more we could all test or tanks as well as have the labs test it.

[Boomer]

OK

[kidchill]

Interesting post. Please post the levels as I'm interested in seeing the precision and accuracy of home test kits. Are they using spectrometry for their values?

[Labman48076]

Originally posted by kidchill
Interesting post. Please post the levels as I'm interested in seeing the precision and accuracy of home test kits. Are they using spectrometry for their values?

In regards to equipment in use for the aquarium water testing, here is what I gathered this morning.

Hach DR series Spectrophotometers and AutoTitrators
Denver Instrument 200 series meters
Jennco & Denver Instrument Ion Specific Probes

All equipment is tested against reference solutions on a weekly basis and re-calibrated as is necessary. In the case of parameters checked by the Spectrophotometers, the unit is additionally zeroed out before each test with a sample of your water.

[Billybeau1]

Originally posted by HowardW
Ok, I did this so I can see what they get on my calcium and if it agrees with my Seachem kit which Billybeau keeps telling me is off

I rest my case.

[Boomer]

What is this People's Court ? Staring Judge Billybeau..................