WOW!!! My endcap just caught on fire

[psycho_clown]

my eyes are so wiped out just sat down and read the thread for start to finish and i must got me really thinking about i plan on setting up a new tank soon and liked the look of the vho. But now the bulb thing and the end cap thing got me really think of going to other options. got two little girls to think of first.



Kristopher

[melev]

Well, mine were built into one piece, but yes there are endcaps. PC's have a socket as well. Here are my T-5's:

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0504/t5.html

[psycho_clown]

my eye are wiped out just read my poorly put together. sorry for that.

[Seacat]

All's I can say, I have no concerns...till I read this blasted thread! I set my VHO's up a year ago and check the caps probably 2-3 times a week while feeding or cleaning the tank, as of this post, no discoloration of either the end caps or bulbs.

I took extra precaution to be sure the set up was correct according to Icecaps recommendation...and then some. Of course seems like I've read that some members did the same thing, with less than desirable results. :eek 1:

I've got one more 250 HQI combo to get from Ocean Encounters in about 2-3 weeks (have two now) and since this fire hazard with the VHO's is a potential looming disaster. I'm giving some what serious consideration of going to either T5's or PC for my supplement 03 lighting.

Temp’s aren’t really that bad with the current setup. Sump temp is 81.1F, tank temp 78.8F canopy temp 99.3F (with both HQI’s on) room temp 78.8F

[MikeTV1]

Wouldn't it be a simple / cheap solution to just implement a thermal fuse in the endcap which would break the connection to the ballast if the temp in the endcap got too high? Certainly there is a safe range of temp between the noral bulb temp and the temp the plastic could actually ignite. Couldn't a thermal fuse like those used in coffee pots and toaster ovens be used to break the connection in this range and shut the bulb down?

I would rather have a dead endcap than a burned house / canopy

[Mimbler1]

That's a good idea MikeTV1. It would be fairly simple to wire in a temp switch above each endcap that would trigger a latching relay to shut the power when the safe temp was reached,
Mike

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

wow this is getting realy interesting !

[electric130]

the new T5 endcaps are essentially identical to the 2 peice VHO endcaps. i have installed both a Coralvue system and a Sunlight Supply system. this is true for both of them. T5's don't get as hot as VHO's though. FWIW, i've been running the same set of VHO endcaps for 4 years without an issue. my friend in Ohio has been running the same set for 14 years without an issue. if they're properly installed, keep free of salt and moisture, and kept cool (fans blowing on mine) then you shouldn't have a problem.

[Tomzpc]

I've seen melted PC endcaps too so it isn't just VHO.

J.R....I think that my T-5's get hotter than my VHO bulbs ever did.

[Frick-n-Frags]

discuss all you want. The only 100% way to not have any risk of fire is to not use flammable endcaps at all. And if all wiring is positively connected there is no chance for intermittant gap arcing either.

Nothing flammable, nothing that can arc,=no risk of fire regardless of the operating temp, bottom line. (like an HQI lamp housing that runs at whatever 1300º is only surrounded by quartz, metal and ceramic, no problems)

[vitz]

isn't typical plastic wire insulation flammable ?

[CJ]

Does anybody know the state of AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interupter) technology? They were supposed to come out with a combination GFCI/AFCI. I would think this would be very helpful for us with all our electrical gadgets and if the endcap related fires are due to arcing this could be a life/home saver.

[sultros]

Would ceramic endcaps prevent these fires?

If so...does anyone make them.

[mickey57]

....Add me to the list of being fortunate.Here is a pic of what I found today when I walked inside to take a break form cutting the grass Yeah,I'm mad as hell.The friggin 660 ballast should have cut off,it didn't lose its continuity I guess,It was smoldering.Can't let the wife find out about this or I would be shut down for sure I soldered all 16 wires to the pins,then used that liquid insulation from HD and tomorrow (today) I will do the PCs on my other tank.
..
..
.....................Mickey...............

[John Kelly]

If you still have the BULB THAT CAUSED THIS, I would bet that if it were carefully broken open you would find that the filament at the end of the bulb where the endcap was is bent/warped and not straight. You would probably also find that the oval Ion Shielding ring that surrounds the filament is no longer spot welded together and has separated. You should also find superheating marks on this shield. If you were to look at the base of the pins that the filment is crimped to, you would probably find black marks on the glass where the pin exits the inside of the bulb.

What brand is the bulb? (probably URI?)
Are there any obvious dark spots on the bulb, right about where the endcap seal would be touching it? (probably yes?)
How old is the bulb? (probably not very old?)
Was there any corrosion? (probably not?)
Was the ballast wired into the endcap properly (with straight wires and without multiple crimp connectors or other things that may cause an unusual amount of resistance)? (probably so?)

see also this thread
HERE for some more information.

I have discussed some of these cases with an electrician that specializes in large walk in refrigeration units. He explained to me that the VHO bulb was originally made for use in these cold environment units where the temperature of the bulbs wouldn't be a hazard. He has seen many melted endcaps in his line of work. When I told him about using plastic endcaps for VHO lighting over the fish tank he said that was completely stupid.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Originally posted by ReefArtist

I have discussed some of these cases with an electrician that specializes in large walk in refrigeration units. He explained to me that the VHO bulb was originally made for use in these cold environment units where the temperature of the bulbs wouldn't be a hazard. He has seen many melted endcaps in his line of work. When I told him about using plastic endcaps for VHO lighting over the fish tank he said that was completely stupid.

there ya go.

So who cares what caused it? It happened. So, seeing as how these bulbs can get very very hot the real Q to me is: watcha gonna do to keep it from igniting? <----remove the combustible part of the equation of course. Ask mickey57, I think he relates to the reality of the situation. Now mickeys bulbs can arc-weld at the ends and they won't go up in flames because there is nothing to burn (plus the bulbs run WAY cooler with nothing enclosing them in the first place)


mickey, nothin' like being there, doing that, to turn you into one solderin' sunofagun. (not funny actually, more of a "dodged a howitzer shell" feeling) I regretfully welcome you to one of the most dubious distiction of clubs.

All my bulbs have like 12" pigtails on them and I connect the pigtails to the main wiring with plastic wirenuts. At bulb change time, I just solder up pigtails on the new bulbs and swap them out without messing with the main wiring. I think this will work just fine for me from now on. I don't even give the fire issue a second thought anymore.

[mickey57]

..This ain't cool How many houses have burnt down because of this How long have these caps or the URI bulbs been at fault? I guess a bean counter for one of these companies weighed the cost and the lives of our families isn't worth a change.I am still mad as hell.What if I would not have been here.The FD would just say probable cause;Aquirium,with faulty wiring or something to blame me.Well if anyone needs proof of a disaster that this happened to,you are welcome to my pics.
......
...........................Michael Louis Cook...........................

[John Kelly]

Yep, .......the filament on the inside of the bulb is warped. It got too close to the oval ring shield that surrounds it and it superheated. The extra heat from the inside was sent through the bulb pin wire, which then burnt the cardboard-type insulation on the outside. The bulb pin is crimped to the bulb pin wire so whatever temperature the wire is, the pin will be also; therefore, the hot bulb pin melted the cheap plastic endcap. You can see that one pin has toasted the cardboard and melted the endcap. It is not BOTH pins, but just one. That is because when the filament is warped, it is more toward one side than the other. So the bulb pin wire on that side gets much hotter than the other side.

As a side note: When a VHO bulb is installed into an endcap, it needs to be twisted into place. The twisting of these bulbs into the endcaps CANNOT damage the bulb pins to the point of arcing. You would have to force the bulb into the endcap with a wrench before the bulb pins could be damaged enough to arc. You can bend the bulb pin wire on the outside of the bulb and it will not affect the wire or the filament on the inside of the bulb. The bulb is very tightly sealed on the ends where the bulb pin wire goes through, if it wasn't, the gasses would escape.

I know I keep popping up here and repeating myself on this, but the hazards of VHO bulb usage needs to be known and spread; otherwise nothing will ever change until someones house burns down and takes a life or two. Even then, some "Authority" will say it was faulty wiring of the ballast by the user, or corrosion inside of the endcap because the user didn't tighten them etc etc. It's always "the users fault" "the users fault" or the bulb company says "It's the ballast makers fault" and the ballast maker says "It's the bulb makers fault"

I have directly spoken to the URI VHO "Authority" who proceeded to adamantly assert that there could be NO FLAWS in the manufacturing of these bulbs.........THIS IS COMPLETE BS!! These bulbs are not even near perfect and the endcaps used to hold them are not even near fireproof or even meltproof.

Someday, all of the data gathered in these "Melted Endcap" threads may be used in a law suit. I wouldn't doubt it. Too often, that is what has to happen before companies take the safety of the public seriously.

[electric130]

a friend of mine has been using the same Icecap ballast, 3-piece endcaps, with URI bulbs for over 12 years now. the whole thing is keeping them cool though. what he did and what i've done with my same endcaps for the last 4 years is have a 55CFM or greater fan blowing cool air from outside the canopy in across the endcaps. so i have a fan on the back of the canopy at each end cooling the endcaps, as well as an additional fan in the middle of the canopy. i run my URI VHO's for at least 12 months, sometimes 18 months and i've never had a problem. now i'm not saying that any of you that have had problems are doing anything wrong. i'm honestly sorry that you've had to experience something like that. i wouldn't wish a fire on my worst enemy. i also don't feel that soldering the wires on the pins is a good option though, based on my experience and knowledge of electricity. if you want to do it, i wish you the best of luck and please be careful. you won't find soldered fluorescent lights in my house though

[vitz]

i would think that the evidence here alone would be enough to get a consumer safety group interested in getting these companies to fix their product, recall them, etc

one doesn't have to wait for a disaster to sue someone for making a dangerous product

[wds21921]

The last part of this thread seemed at least to focus on Uri and VHO bulbs but clearly there are many examples thoughout the thread of NO and PC lighting fires as well.
This pretty much covers the entire spectrum of possible lighting sources that cover the hobby.
Considering what we as hobbyists and consumers spend for these necessary appliances to maintain our hobby it should be up to the manufacturers to develop at least a little safer product. It's not much to ask and if it means a slight increase in the price so be it. I've seen and been in some very bad fires firsthand before and after fire detectors were required (still limited). It's tough if your on a budget to justify some of the increased costs but if your unfortunate enough to experience the aftermath it's money and time well invested.
It should be demanded by everyone that the manufacturers take the necessary steps to provide us some legitimate safety!

[greenman]

I just had two 65w pc caps burn up with in a week of each other.

[CH]

heres a thread in the icecap forum discussing one way to cause a fire by doing something incorrectly
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=415970
I myself hav encaps that look completely different (not made by icecap i think). They have two holes for the pin to fit into, so there is no incorrect orientation or contact issue. And they are just one piece that snaps on to each end of the bulb.

[greenman]

In my case it was a contact issue. I took them appart cleaned them and put everything back together with a tighter fit. They work fine now other then the black burnt up look.

[ASH]

From IceCap:
ReefArtist, on 4-15-04 on the thread you linked to you said the following,
"I spoke with the fluorescent bulb guy at URI ..................... I did find this out:
-----The 3 piece German endcaps that are available on the market are made by URI. As I understand it, they are sold through various vendors under several names (vosslouh, ((sp?)). The two piece variety are made by ICECAP. .................."

In fact, URI sells endcaps they purchase from Vossloh-Schwabe or one of VS's distributors. IceCap buys the two piece endcaps directly from Stucchi. On our site we show what certifications it has passed. http://www.icecapinc.com/images/t12ec.jpg

There was a comment among the endless posts in these threads about new lamps coming in at shorter lengths. I've never heard of that concern before but it's an issue worth being concerned about IMO. Mounted endcaps properly spaced to make for a snug fit will avoid most installation related problems. If the lamps change length you need to move your endcaps or use another lamp. This doesn't address the internal lamp defect questions being tossed about but does suggest an answer for something you can see and adjust for.

The other point made was that blackening of the lamp's ends is normal. It's normal for conventional ballasts that fully use the lamp's filament. Eventually the filament becomes so depleted it breaks. We use a different approach in running the lamps that avoids this slow depletion (or as I refer to it, built in obsolescence). If a lamp's end is blackening when being run on an IceCap VHO ballast, you have a wiring problem to that endcap or the lamp's pins are not making a solid connection to the endcap. Look into it.

Andy