Solaris Led lighting systems - Page 4

owsi · #76 04/19/2007, 09:39 AM

Thats another point I forgot, used to use a fan on the sump to supplement the cooling. This added to the humidity the AC had to pull out. Living room was always uncomfortable, and hallway was a heat channel.
Electric bill for 4-26-06 Ave. Temp =63degrees 154 KWH=$131.31
Electric Bill for 4-24-07 Ave. Temp =63degrees 131KWH=$115.61
Tucson Electric Power, AZ.

BeanAnimal · #77 04/19/2007, 09:50 AM

Here is the "flaw" in the math that a lot of people do not get their heads wraped around. It takes far less than 1 watt of A/C to remove 1 watt of heat from your home. So if the LIGHTS contribute $40 worth of electrical usage into the home, then the A/C can not spend $40 to remove it.

That is the magic of phase change systems. The HEAT is moved via phase change to a different zone (outside your house).

The same concept holds true with evaporation from your tank. A 10 watt fan can produce much more than 10 watts of cooling by assisting PHASE CHANGE. You can battle a 100 watt heater with a 10 watt fan. Not only that but the central A/C can then move that moisture out of the house and you still come out ahead of the head load (in this case 100W). Remember we are MOVING heat, not changing it.

So, back to your problem. Yes the A/C may cost you $40 a month to run, but not all $40 can be attributed to the lights on your tank. You have a chiller that IS contributing to the heat load of hte house, but it is also a phase change device and therefore not watt for watt in stride with the heat load either.

Lets take this a step further if we can. You did not list the TOTAL wattage of the old setup or the proposed setup. If you are using central A/C we can look at the lights first. BOTH setups will contribute their TOTAL wattage to the house. So if you replace 800W of MH with 650W of LED, your net savings in USAGE is 150W. Remember heat IS energy, so that is ALL you save in heat load to the home, save the chiller. (read on...)

Now here is where things get a bit more fuzzy... The LEDS do not heat the tank as directly as the MH. That means that the Central A/C will do a lot of the work in keeping the tank cool by removing the heat generated by the LEDS before it gets absorbed into the tank. Note that it [the A/C unit] still has to remove the heat! The difference is that you save the energy usage of the chiller, plus a few percent that the central A/C would have had to remove due to the chillers own heat load on the house). In other words if you KNEW how many hours a day the chiller ran, you could work backwards and pretty much determine HOW MUCH you will save.

I hope that makes sense.

As for your savings plan... Sure it looks like a rough estimate that will work. You will save some electricity every month. Bulb replacement should save you money (if the LEDs do last as long as they hope in this system). Your sale of your current equipment will offset much of the purchase price and you do not have to invest in a chiller.

We could certainly talk about some of those numbers (is a chiller realy needed or would evaporation handle hte heat load). We could talk about the money LOST in the purchase and sale of equipment (it has to be considered when you calculate "savings")

But all in all I think you should come out ahead quickly enough (it may be a bit further out than 2 years...)

Each situation is different and these are the things that need to be looked at if COST is the driving factor.

Bean

bstreep · #78 04/19/2007, 10:57 AM

Thanks, Bean for the info AND the thoughtful analysis. Here's a bit more:

My tank gets up to 83 during the day sometimes - I try and keep it to less. Especially when the A/C is off. I have several fans that run when the temp hits 79.5 (79 is my base temp). Evaporation is about 5 gallons a day, typically. That's 5 gallons of water that has to be removed from the house either thru air movement (the windows open) or A/C. The GOOD part is that this bedroom and my office - upstairs right above it - are kind of on their own 1.5 ton unit (the other 3.5 ton unit and it also cool our living/dining/family rooms together). So, I'm not having to cool all 2900 square feet of house when it kicks on! But, my problem is that I'm running A/C instead of having the house open, like we would typically do this time of year and in the fall. So, I'm cooling the entire house now, instead of opening it up.

My total lighting system now is 400w x 3 plus 400w VHO = 1600w. Oh yeah, our electricty is cheap - less than $0.06 a kwh.

We must also NOT forget the intangible - Mamma would be happier with a cooler, less humid bedroom...

lovefish2 · #79 04/19/2007, 11:50 PM

these are the pictures showing the begining of my demise....

ThomasinKind · #80 04/20/2007, 12:06 AM

I will never again make a joke on these forums...

I plan to check out SWS sometime this weekend.

All users still happy with their purchases?

owsi · #81 04/20/2007, 01:45 AM

Humor is great, some people just don't have a life. I have only heard a couple of people that got rid of theirs, I think they posted why on this thread. I am thinking of getting a second unit for my wife's reef. My tank is new (since Nov.) so I only have a few corals, but its aged enough now to start building up the SPS. The ones I have now are doing great, ORA Tort, ORA Turquoise Stag, TCN Leng SY, TCOLE Purple Rain Steve Elias Stag, S. Benet Tort. And as said before, have the lights cut back due to bleaching at first.

Biggie · #82 04/20/2007, 05:00 AM

Does anyone know where I can buy a new set of legs for a Solaris?

Biggie · #83 04/20/2007, 05:00 AM

Does anyone know where I can buy a new set of legs for a Solaris? I dont see the option on the Solaris web sight for just purchasing the legs.

Amphibious · #84 04/20/2007, 05:28 AM

Biggie, I'll check for you. PM you later.

Biggie · #85 04/20/2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amphibious
Biggie, I'll check for you. PM you later.

Thank you! Let me Know what you come up with, Im sure others will want/need them as well.

BeanAnimal · #86 04/20/2007, 09:10 AM

Humor is great, some people just don't have a life.

And some people are too childish to post without cracking a comment... YOU JUST DID IT AGAIN. Anybody with a brain can see that your comments are not meant to be humorous and instead are a constant flow of snipes and personal attacks. The humor comes from the fact that you just can't help yourself and do not see your actions for what they are.

MiddletonMark · #87 04/20/2007, 10:15 AM

I would strongly recommend to everyone to please review the UA before posting to this thread.
User Agreement

Further violations will not be tolerated.

mhurley · #88 04/20/2007, 11:36 AM

At some point people, you simply have agree to disagree and stop fighting here because it's really getting old.

bignick · #89 04/20/2007, 12:43 PM

See as interesting as these lights are to me they just wouldn't be worth it. Mainly because i don't run a chiller and my tank is in a basement that is usually 70* year round. So unless you have a chiller it seems that these lights would take an awful long time to pay for themselves for someone like me. I do believe that they work, and save you money, and are worth every penny, but i don't have that many pennies laying around to afford it.

Biggie · #90 04/20/2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bignick
See as interesting as these lights are to me they just wouldn't be worth it. Mainly because i don't run a chiller and my tank is in a basement that is usually 70* year round. So unless you have a chiller it seems that these lights would take an awful long time to pay for themselves for someone like me. I do believe that they work, and save you money, and are worth every penny, but i don't have that many pennies laying around to afford it.

Your right in thinking that. Its not for everyone. But, the cost of electricity seems to have no bounds and I tend to believe in the trend of higher prices.
What the math equates to now in savings may be multiplied and probably will by history's example. So savings will also be multiplied.
If you can run your system on your budget then sure why not. I was looking for less heat less cost to run my system and the Solaris fit the bill. Not only that but the savings in having to run multiple outlets and a power upgrade to get my light needs.

You have to be pragmatic in what your needs are before you really look at this system IMO.
I killed several birds by buying this unit and Im pretty satisfied with its output.
Over the course of several months Ive read several threads here on RC about the light quality, intensity, and the very many self proclaimed experts dolling out jargon that not many readers can understand.
Bottom line is the light works for 90% of what you will want to keep in 90% of the tanks you will own. The exceptions to that are minimal and the benefits are substantial.

I havent ever seen a product in 30 years as a product designer and mechanical engineeer that was perfect for every scenario of its inteded design function. Its impossible to please everyone.

That said the Solaris encompasses the majority of the reefing communitiesd needs in a well designed unit thats is multi-functional, user friendly as well as energy efficent.

Man I still say I should be getting a kick back from them for my jib. lol...

Mark426 · #91 04/20/2007, 08:05 PM

I just got a Solaris 14" 20K unit that was purchased from Marine Depot. I was soooo excited that I would now have the ULTIMATE NANO setup. My delivery finally arrived and I opened the box in great anticipation. Right away I was slightly disappointed. I could see that the screws on the endplates had lots of tool markings and were wallowed out badly; also there were some light scratches on top of the hood. I thought to myself, that d*amn Marine Depot sent me a light that had been returned or something. Normally I would have sent it right back, but I wanted it so bad I did not. Anyway... I read the instructions front to back and began to assemble the fixture. I could not get the legs to slide into the tracks due to the previsiously mentioned endplates not lining up with the tracks in the fixture body. ...disappointment #2. Easy fix, loosen the buggered up screws and line things up. Legs now on and time to plug things in and fire it up. I turned on the switch located on the power supply and looking forward to playing with the cool LCD display and see how things looked and worked. Well... the display was blank but the 4 blue moon lights were on. So...back to the instructions, thinking that I missed something that would make the LCD display work. As I am reading through the instructions I smell something electrical burning...I look up and wisps of smoke are coming out of the fan vents. I hit the on/off switch and the moon lights are still on...???? I pulled the cord out of the wall to power off, by then my wife comes running in asking what’s burning. Now I am really disappointed. I call PFO and speak with Carla, she was very nice and said they would make sure everything was taken care of. She checked to see if they had another fixture to send me. They are OUT and wont have any for a month if I remember correctly. She said she would call Marine Depot and have them contact me ASAP. Well they never did...I called them and arranged for a return and replacement...they are out also.... VERY disappointed now. I call PFO today and speak to Phil...also very nice guy. I tell him the whole story and even mention the tool marks on the screws. He makes a comment that, if we open it up several times and damage the screws we should put new ones in. Why are they opening it up several times....they aren’t manufacturing it there are they?....strange. Any way, I ask him who on there distributor list may have some/one and he really can’t give me an answer…. Even more disappointment.

I read every page of this thread before I placed my order and was concerned about the low quality control that many buyers have had (loose screws, etc)….but forged ahead anyway (disappointed in myself). I can confirm that the build quality is quite low for the most extravagant, expensive light on the market, it is typical of most Chinese aquarium products. Is that where it is assembled? Other than the tool marks and scratches, there are chips on the acrylic light shield where it had been cut to length and the part that is painted black covers up the about 1/8 inch of the LEDS. One row of the LED lights was not exactly aligned like the others. The biggest (other than the fire) distraction is the LCD display is not straight on the fixture, it is lower on one end than the other. Just look at the high end German fixtures…true works of manufacturing art with quality to match, I expected the same at this price level. As you can see I am VERY DISAPOINTED. A fixture of this price should at least look flawless much less not catch on fire. The manufacturer not having any to sell or able to tell a customer where to buy one is not good either. Long story short....The PFO Solaris is not ready for prime time.
That’s my experience... I hate to bash PFO, they seem to be very nice people and really want to help, I would love to have the Solaris light, but I am thinking I should wait and see if they can straighten things out, hopefully that will be soon. I had assembled an aquarium that was solely designed around this light (at even more expense), now that will have to go into storage. This is all very sad too me….what a great idea that just isn’t there yet.

Sorry for the rant

p.s. I still want one.....strange huh?

JustOneMoreTank · #92 04/20/2007, 09:37 PM

Ouch!?!? Sorry for your problems with the new light. Hopefully they can get it fixed if that is what you really want to stick with. Good luck.

Amphibious · #93 04/20/2007, 10:03 PM

PFO's customer service is second to none. They will take care of you. That's been my experience. Sorry for the inconvenience.

owsi · #94 04/20/2007, 10:05 PM

That is sad, I know I was frustrated when mine came. Had one set of leds that took 3 tries to fix. But now it is working flawlessly and a true pleasure. Hope you get it fixed to what you expect, PFO will do what it takes to make it right.

Mark426 · #95 04/20/2007, 11:54 PM

PFO tried too help and seems like a stand up company. I also understand that all products have problems at times. My point is, for the price the quality has be better and for the price replacements should be readly available. Thats one factor in my "not ready for prime time" remark.

I may not have made it clear, I returned the light to Marine Depot for a full refund. My options were too have a really messed up unit repaired (I dont think so), wait for some unknown period for a replacement or get a refund. I may write PFO and ask if they would they be willing to send me another one when its available with a no questions asked return policy. If the quality is better and it works as claimed, I would love to have one then.

By the way... Marine Depot is refunding the cost of the light but not the shipping. Bummer.

tcmfish · #96 04/21/2007, 12:28 AM

I dont have led's but amphibious i have what looks to be the same acro with i know is the same acro crab pretty cool to see someone else with it.

jnb · #97 04/21/2007, 06:53 AM

this is a bummer and I am disappointed that PFO, albeit they are easy to talk to and responsive to problems, would let this defecttive unit slip out to Marine depot in the first place. How many other Marine Depot units are going to be of this ilk (obviously not quality controlled checked properly). Who boxes these things up in the first place - china?

And Marine depot - what's up with their policy to not refund shipping when you may want to start all over not depending on their next shipment of a replacement in fears that it also has these kind of problems - I would voice this in the marine depot/vender experiences as a case where they should refund shipping despite their ripoff policy. I guess the policy is in place so they don't lose a sale by making you continue to use the money with them?

If you continue to want a Solaris I would talk to Pat at PFO to get shipment directly from them only after they give it complete a in-house quality control check.

I have a solaris and liked it and had problems and Pat took care of me - it is for sale right now because it is not the right light for what I am going to be doing once my new tank is finished and when I order my 400watt unit it will have to be opened by someone I trust to check it out before it is shipped. I would even pay extra for that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark426
PFO tried too help and seems like a stand up company. I also understand that all products have problems at times. My point is, for the price the quality has be better and for the price replacements should be readly available. Thats one factor in my "not ready for prime time" remark.

I may not have made it clear, I returned the light to Marine Depot for a full refund. My options were too have a really messed up unit repaired (I dont think so), wait for some unknown period for a replacement or get a refund. I may write PFO and ask if they would they be willing to send me another one when its available with a no questions asked return policy. If the quality is better and it works as claimed, I would love to have one then.

By the way... Marine Depot is refunding the cost of the light but not the shipping. Bummer.

Amphibious · #98 04/21/2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tcmfish
I dont have led's but amphibious i have what looks to be the same acro with i know is the same acro crab pretty cool to see someone else with it.

Hey tcmfish,

the Acro is a cute little guy. Mine is doing great. Here he is in the ORA Tri Color Acro he came with back in June '06.

You can just barely see him hiding in the branchs of the Acro.

Much more visible here in the Acro as it appears today. (Just took the pic) Most of the time I forget he's there. It is fun to point him out when guests are over. Definitely one of the nicer hitchhikers.

Dick

Amphibious · #99 04/21/2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark426
PFO tried too help and seems like a stand up company. I also understand that all products have problems at times. My point is, for the price the quality has be better and for the price replacements should be readly available. Thats one factor in my "not ready for prime time" remark.

I may not have made it clear, I returned the light to Marine Depot for a full refund. My options were too have a really messed up unit repaired (I dont think so), wait for some unknown period for a replacement or get a refund. I may write PFO and ask if they would they be willing to send me another one when its available with a no questions asked return policy. If the quality is better and it works as claimed, I would love to have one then.

By the way... Marine Depot is refunding the cost of the light but not the shipping. Bummer.

Mark,

PFO is a stand up company. Call Carla back on Monday and see what she can do for you on another light.

It's too bad about Marine Depot not returning your shipping cost. I can understand them not doing that if you were returning the product because you simply didn't want it but, the light was clearly defective. In my opinion they should refund the shipping, too.

Quote:

Originally posted by jnb
Who boxes these things up in the first place - china?

Nick, the answer to your question is, yes. The units come boxed and ready for re-shipping to customers. QC is supposed to be taken care of in China. That has been one of Pat's biggest nightmares. He has made many trips to China dealing with various situations, QC being one of them. One of the posibilities in this case might be that the 14" model Marine Depot got was from an early shipment before the QC problem came to light. No pun intended.

Dick

owsi · #**100** 04/21/2007, 09:50 AM

In my case Pat told me how to correct the problem and gave me the option of replacing it. I took the replace option and they sent a new unit right out since mine was working 99.5%. When I got the new unit, I sent the other back. The screw issue was metric versus standard and should be fixed now, maybe MD was sent new screws to change out? I would definitely call MD and insist on a refund of shipping, I'm sure they will do that, never had a CS problem that MD didn't make right. Hope all works out, keep us posted.