DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 15

the other tang · #**351** 04/23/2007, 04:56 PM

I is a matter of surface contact, but the surface must be deep enough for the bacteria to thrive. I read earlier in this thread about 8" was the min and there is really no max. There is however a point of diminishing returns. 40" sounds pretty deep, but that is not all bad. If you had argronite below it it would be even better.

MLB, sounds right, that is the most common and proven way of running a dsb. Filter or skim before and keep the water moving over the sand, and no critters. You should be fine. Give it 4-6 wks to cycle.

Jack,That apprears to be cheap ole silica , it works great. No blooms here.

Altpers0na-old · #**352** 04/23/2007, 09:45 PM

i have not read all 54 pages of this thread yet, but i have questions...

im setting up a new 75g tank.... w/ regular ish sump under it... im thinking about the dsb bucket... and im curious about setting my rbsd in my sump.

either with the overflow going to the bucket then to the sump

or

should i skim the over flow first and feed that to the bucket?

i think option 1 puts the least oxygen in the bucket, but more solids, and option 2 should be more oxygen and less solids...

i guess option 3 is dont do it either way...

the other tang · #**353** 04/24/2007, 05:50 PM

IMO the primary target is 0 solids. Then o2 becomes an issue, but not critical. I wish Anthony was still posting on this topic. I believe a deep 10"+ would simply have a little deeper but not much o2 enriched layer, the remaining sand should be plenty to handle a 75. To skim or not to skim? Well IMO either skim or filter with a sock filter before you hit the dsb, your choice.

Altpers0na-old · #**354** 04/24/2007, 08:03 PM

cool, ty for the input..

supervdl · #**355** 04/24/2007, 08:33 PM

How large of a RDSB do I need to have for a 210 gallon tank that has 10-20 ppm in nitrates. I don't have much room - that's the reason I ask.

the other tang · #**356** 04/25/2007, 07:07 AM

i think the ratio was 5g per 80 g of tank.

James87 · #**357** 04/25/2007, 07:38 PM

I've been having a nitrate problem for years and I am going to try a RDSB. But I have a question:

Would it be okay to use live sand from a dispay tank for this application? I suppose the aerobic bacteria, solids, and any organisms that get buried would perish and decompose but this would be a minimal spike correct? And it would decompose? I have good biological filtration, except when it comes to my 4" DSB in my display, and my refugium, both of which seem to do little.

a4twenty · #**358** 04/26/2007, 06:09 AM

depending on how old your DSB is, i think you would be best leaving it alone. IMO stirring it up may only worsen the problem at this point.

percula99 · #**359** 04/27/2007, 05:59 AM

JackRyan

I used CaribSea Aragamax sugar sized oolite. I could have used a cheaper sand, but seeing as I had so many problems in the past with nitrates I decided to leave nothing to chance and went with the good stuff. I have no regrets as it has worked out very well for me.

Black71gp · #**360** 04/27/2007, 09:14 AM

so my system is BB and around 600-700 gallons... i have either a 32 gallon rubbermaid or a 25 gallon. which one would work. i am going to just get sand from HD how much do i need how deep should it be in the bucket... what is too deep??????

pluvialis · #**361** 04/27/2007, 09:09 PM

i accidentally left my DSB offline for about 5 days. Im not sure if it is safe to hook back up to my main tanks of 25 gallons. The RDSB was 5 gallon of sand. I flushed it with fresh SW and the bad smell is gone. Do i need to start the RDSB over again or can i Flush with sw and hook it back up to the main tank. It was lacking oxygen for long time but since the dsb should lack oxygen I wonder if I will be able to hook it back up after 5 days of no circulation?????????

the other tang · #**362** 04/29/2007, 12:56 PM

I'd flush, flush and re-flush. Then test the water after sitting for a few hours, if it passes or in close to being in range let it run. i did the same thing and had no issues.

Black71, i don't think either is big enough for 600-700g. I think a 55g is more along the lines of what you'd need. I think the consensus is over 14" is the point of diminishing return. I like the rubbermaid set ups people have posted here. There are several good ones to copy, or at least borrow ideas from.

nyvp · #**363** 04/29/2007, 01:00 PM

on my 560/g I have my 240 sump cut in 1/4 for my rdsb. so about a 60/g Its filled almost to the top. so 48x12x18 maybe not 18 "high closer to 15" works right

Black71gp · #**364** 04/29/2007, 02:29 PM

i have a spare 55 gallon tank.. i guess i could set that up someplace in the dark so no ligh gets in it.. ore is that not a huge deal. what about the air tight.. i thought everytone used the trash containers cause they are cheap, covered, and no light gets in....i will look into more rubbermaid set ups as well then.

the other tang · #**365** 04/30/2007, 10:23 AM

Either will wor, I think the rubbermaids are popular due to price alone, if you have a 55 then i'd use it.
I don't believe absolute dark is needed, but just not in direct sun light natural or not. Just keep your flow up and detrius exremely low and you wil be fine.

Black71gp · #**366** 04/30/2007, 06:29 PM

and about 14" deep... thanks guys.. should i put anything else in with it or just sand alone..

reefez · #**367** 05/01/2007, 01:48 AM

Well I have read through a lot of this thread and I can't find enough real hard fact that it is a good nitrate reducer. I'm running bb right now on my 125gal. and was considering this as my trates are 10-20ppm consistently. However I think I'm going to pass on this method. I just really am not seeing enough convinceing evidence.

the other tang · #**368** 05/01/2007, 09:00 AM

Black71, there is something I'd look at if i was still in the planing stages. The ph is so low( near calcium reactor levels) in the bottom of your DSB it will dissolve argronite, although the rate is unknown it will dissolve. You simple add a few pounds to the bottom, then add sand. You end up with a DSB/calcium reactor. This will likely last as long as the dsb. This will be short of the calcium you'd need for an sps tank but would certainly help if you dose. It could be enough to maintain a tank with a lower calcium demand.

reefez, this is a tried and true method that has been altered slightly to a remote set up to save room. The theory is the same. Many reefs have a dsb in the sump and have had for years. The key is 0 deterius preventing it from becoming a nitrate factory, something you can relate to since you run yours bb.

Black71gp · #**369** 05/01/2007, 09:48 AM

hum... the calcium part sounds cool.. ya i am just planning.. i am redoing most of my system and want to incorporate this into the new set up... what would the best argronite be to use? thanks for all your help in this matter

the other tang · #**370** 05/01/2007, 10:48 AM

I'd use crushed, but not sure how much it matters. If someone knows please post. FWIW, I seeded mine with sand from the bottom of my sand bed in the tank, i also mixed in 1/2 tsp sugar. By seeding I mean, I mixed in a few pounds of live sand into the silica I bought.Though you shouldn't have to feed this type of denitrator, initially feeding it will likely shorten the cycle time of 4-6 wks.

reefez · #**371** 05/01/2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

reefez, this is a tried and true method that has been altered slightly to a remote set up to save room. The theory is the same. Many reefs have a dsb in the sump and have had for years. The key is 0 deterius preventing it from becoming a nitrate factory, something you can relate to since you run yours bb

I've seen too many people say how they have seen no results after 5-6 weeks. Can you honestly guarntee that by hooking up a DSB Bucket that my nitrates are going to go from 10-20ppm down to 0-5ppm? I understand that it has to be without light and in a 5 gal. bucket minimum, but what would be the exact amount of media to use on my system? I have a 125gal. 8 fish 3 of which are large tangs. 170lbs. LR and it's BB with 55-60x turnover.
I just see no hard facts to support all of the claims in this thread. Has an actual experiment been conducted on this matter? Set up 2 tanks with the same bio load and go BB on both with the same type of LR And weighed the same, and put a RSD on one of the systems. Do feeding at the same time and everything you would need to do to conduct an actual experiment so that you can post some real results?
I'm a numbers kind of guy. I want to see results before I go plumbing a 50lb. bucket of sand onto my system.

percula99 · #**372** 05/01/2007, 09:45 PM

If you are a numbers kind of guy Reefez, here are mine. I have a 180 reef with 230 pounds of live rock, four large tangs, two large heniochus, three clowns and a school of chromis. I consistently had nitrates in the 50-60 range and I do a 50 gallon water change every month. No matter what I did it didn't make any difference. So...I used a Rubbermaid container with 180 pounds of aragonite in it. For the first several weeks not too much happened, then my RDSB kicked in and since then my nitrates are virtually undectable. If my results don't convince you, then I don't think you will ever be convinced. Your option is don't try it, and say hello to nitrates forever. I for one am glad to be rid of them.

reefez · #**373** 05/01/2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

If you are a numbers kind of guy Reefez, here are mine. I have a 180 reef with 230 pounds of live rock, four large tangs, two large heniochus, three clowns and a school of chromis. I consistently had nitrates in the 50-60 range and I do a 50 gallon water change every month. No matter what I did it didn't make any difference. So...I used a Rubbermaid container with 180 pounds of aragonite in it. For the first several weeks not too much happened, then my RDSB kicked in and since then my nitrates are virtually undectable. If my results don't convince you, then I don't think you will ever be convinced. Your option is don't try it, and say hello to nitrates forever. I for one am glad to be rid of them.

How long was your system up and running with those high levels of nitrate before you made the change? We're you BB Before adding the RSB? Are you BB now or do you have sand in the display?

percula99 · #**374** 05/02/2007, 06:44 AM

My present reef has been up and running for over eight years now. My nitrates were good and then went up and stayed up for over a year. I tried several water changes a month with little or no success. I couldn't understand it. I have never run BB. I have always had sand in the display. I vaccumed the sand, and even changed part of the bed.

A friend of mine ran BB and over time his nitrates have run as high as 100. He is presently in the stage of setting up a RDSB. I will check in on him and have him post some observations.

the other tang · #**375** 05/02/2007, 03:53 PM

Thanks perc. Reefez, you are right there is no lab data to support the rates of performance on a rdsb. There is however data proving that low o2" forgot the term" bacteria feed on nitrates. This is and has been in practice in the waste treatment industry for decades. There is also no data showing the sizes dsb for a given tank size. I believe Anthony reccomended 5g dsb per 80g of tank vol as a general rule of thumb. You can do the math and use this on about any system. IMO the posts here sometimes reflect the impatience of someone wanting the levels lowered immediately and take the unit ofline before it fully matures. I have read posts form people with far more experience than me claiming it will not fully mature till about the 6 month mark.