Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > Marine Fish Forums > The Fish Breeding Forum

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01/21/2006, 12:13 AM
rsman rsman is offline
the cow flys at dawn
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: La Mesa Ca USA
Posts: 2,198
A nice foamy works wonders as a learning tool, gets you outdoors, gets you flying, easy to learn, easy on the wallet and very forgiving you can litterally slam them into the ground and they bounce.

something to remember a denitrator is only designed to reduce or remove nitrate(based on its sizing), there are a lot of other nasties that come with dumping pounds of food into heavily populated tanks. the goal of a denitrator on a breeding setup should be to reduce the need for waterchanges due to nitrate, they are not a replacement for mechanical, chemical and aerobic bio filtration. they are for the most part uneffected by mechanical, chemical, aerobic bio filtration. and also have little effects on them.

now, IF you decide to build one or more of these consider using the output for non phyto cultures and larva, things where higher starting water quality is more important. and remember to degass before use these areas where O2 consumption is high require water higher in O2, the output of your denitrator will not be high in O2.
__________________
smile its all good
  #52  
Old 01/21/2006, 11:05 AM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Good points rsman, and exactly correct on the foamie trainer. I just taught a buddy to fly on one of these http://www.hobby-lobby.com/easystar.htm Good flying little plane, we basically bought the combo package, but upgraded the radio to a nicer 2 stick 6 channel and got a lithium polymer capable charger.

Here is what I plan for my setup, I do have facilities to take care of the ammonia and nitrite, but would love to hear any recommendations.

The overflows will be plumb together into a single line, which will drain into a 10g bio-ball trickle filter. This will exit into the second chamber of the sump (refugium), and split a small amount of water through the denitrifier coil. The coil and the refugium will exit into the skimmer section, which will output into the return area.

The returns will go to the growout tanks only, I will always have 4 fry tanks which will use water from the main system, but will not be plumbed in line. I will simply syphon the debris off the bottom of the tanks into a bucket, and then open a valve from the main systems return to replenish the water.

Right now, I plan to just use several Tuff Box style plastic containers for the different sections of the sump, and plumb those together with bulkheads and small PVC connectors. All total, the sump system should be about 80 gallons, and there will initially be 12 ten gallons (with about 8 gallons a peice in them) plus the 4 fry tanks.

I'm off to the local hardware stores to get some stuff so I can piece some more of this together today, I'll post pics of the progress. Any thoughts on what vessel to use for the trickle? I'm thinking maybe BIG diameter PVC, but not sure at this point.
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #53  
Old 01/21/2006, 12:34 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
I forgot to mention in that last post, that i would be running a Magnum 350 Deluxe (with the dual bio-wheel attachment) in the sump as well. It will probably go into the same chamber as the ptorein skimmer in between the refugium and return areas.
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #54  
Old 01/22/2006, 04:10 AM
electrokate electrokate is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Olympia WA
Posts: 43
Hi,
Your setup sounds really great!
I have those Home Despot shelves and I have to warn you about a few things. One, they rust. When they start to rust the paint comes off in sheets and can land in the tanks. I do use it, only am going to be more careful about keeping lids on HOT filters and avoiding leaving tanks uncovered. Any salt spray, even that which you can't see, apparently somehow corrodes.
Number 2: The shelves bend like crazy. I put kritter keepers and gallon jars of cultures on them and they bowed. Getting humidity on them from tanks on the next shelf down exascerbates the problem. Having 10 gallon tanks in the wrong way so they hang off the ends is great, having boxes inside resting solely on the particle board not good. (:
Since your system is saltwater you definitely will need to keep on top of all drips and leaks. Where my rack meets the floor it is one pile of rust colored particles, kind of scary. I have been using it for under 3 years.
Personally I would rather put everything holding saltwater on wood 2X4 racks and use these shelves for drygoods. Or freshwater, ha ha! My fishroom is mostly freshwater, yours probably not... I breed killifish. I also use chrome racks made like the "metro racks" sold for restaurant kitchens, they rust too but maintain structural integrity longer. Costco sells them in widths suitable for 2 10 gallon tanks placed the "right" way per shelf.
Kate
  #55  
Old 01/22/2006, 11:31 AM
NicoleC NicoleC is offline
Fish Yenta
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hartselle, AL
Posts: 8,525
Thanks for the details! I'm looking for a small rack solution that doesn't look like total crap, since I don't have a fishroom and it will be going in my living room. I can't afford having someone build me a custom wood rack, although I'd like that. I could build it myself, but I live in a condo and have nowhere to work.

Actually, I'd like to have two small racks, one in the living room and one in the kitchen. The kitchen can be cultures, the living room fish (since the temp in the living room is more stable.) I took one look at that particle board and crossed the HD racks off my list...
__________________
Don't count your gobies before they've metamorphasized.
  #56  
Old 01/22/2006, 12:56 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
I almost did, but I'm not using the top shelf for anything except hanging drip systems from, so I doubled up the particle board on the tank shelf, and then put some mylar backed styrofoam sheets down so that water can't seep through (and to equalize the load of the tanks when the shelves bow).

I doubt if they will be a long term solution, but they are working for now. Someday, I plan to build a good sturdy shelving unit, but these will give me a better idea of what I want until the time comes, and they will make great storage when they are replaced.

Sure wish i had a workshop with a table saw, and all the other stuff I'll need, I probably could have built them myself for the same amount of money if I already had the tools.
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #57  
Old 01/22/2006, 06:30 PM
mark97r6 mark97r6 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sheffield, U.K
Posts: 353
Great thread and good luck Jnowell. Just tagging along really as i have a simular project planned for later in the year.

Are you going to put any UV units in your design at all? I have considered these for larval tanks, but aint sure!
Is this system just going to be for your clowns? You mentioned a pair of R.Grammas earlier, are they too be included?
Sounds good so far. Keep it up.

Mark
  #58  
Old 01/22/2006, 09:16 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Mark, So far just the clowns, but I plan to get a group of Bangai Cardinals some day, and if my Grammas ever spawn, they'll go in the system too. I had considered a UV unit, and may still add one. Just don't have an extra laying around right now, and all my money is going to more crucial components right now.

On a good note, I have successfully drilled 4 tanks now, with no errors, and my home-made bulkheads ($2 a peice) are working perfectly! Here's the process....

First, I traced the outside diameter of the part that must pass through the tank onto the glass with a Sharpie permanent marker. I bought these Dremel bits at WalMart - $5.50 for the package of two. I use the one that has a small ball on the end to drill a small hole, and then traced the circle out with the cone shaped bit. The pack is Dremel #7150 - Diamond Point Set. If you can't find them locally, Home Depot type places carry the #7144 (cone shaped one) or equiivelent 7134. I haven't found the ball type one anywhere singly, but it's a #7103. The two pack from Walmart costs less than one single bit at HD though.

I set the tank on a towel on my patio, turned the water hose on to a trickle, and kept water running over the whole area while I drilled. The initial hole takes about 1 minute to drill. Then you push the cone shaped bit through the hole, and cut your way around the marker line. The cone shaped bit has diamond stuff from the tip to about 1/2" up, so it cuts the entire thinkness of the glass in one pass, no multiple tracings required. The hole takes about 3 minutes to trace.



The bulkhead uses two PVC parts, and two O-rings. The bulkhead consist of 1 P/N 34275 (3/4"X1/2" Bushing) and 1 P/N 30405 (1/2" MIP Adapter (SXMIP)). Both are Genova part numbers, and can probably be cross-referenced by your local shop.

The O-Rings are made by Danco, and are listed as a #15 (1" O.D. x 3/4" I.D.) Pack of ten for 2 dollars in the kitchen sink section of HD.





Here's a pic of the hole, it's not perfect, but the O-Rings seal it up tight.



And the assembled unit, a 3/4" PVC elbow fits perfectly on the outflow, which will connect to 3/4" pipe back to the sump. The I.D. of the peice inside the tank is 1/2", so I found some 1/2" O.D. drain covers (replacement parts for Maxi-Jet 900).





The installtion goes - put one o-ring on the part that goes through the tank, slide it through from the inside, add another o-ring from the outside, and screw the second part onto the first. Simple, cheap, and leak proof!
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....

Last edited by jnowell; 01/22/2006 at 09:41 PM.
  #59  
Old 01/22/2006, 10:56 PM
Jon Lazar Jon Lazar is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 163
jnowell & NicoleC,

I used the HD racks with particle board shelves, but I covered the particle board with contact paper first. It works great for keeping the water off the "wood", and looks a lot better too.

Jon
  #60  
Old 01/23/2006, 02:06 PM
h2joe h2joe is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: largo FL (Please send me frags)
Posts: 836
one thing that i noticed is that you put a 90 degree elbow on the output of the drilled hole. the only problem i see coming from that is a loud gargling sound. i had the same problem and then fixed it by drilling a hole in the top of the the 90 and adding a small piece of tubing to let air into the down tube and to break the syphone. if you need a pic to show you what im talking about then i can post one. just ask

looks good though IMO.

Mark
__________________
Ummm Ummm Good
  #61  
Old 01/23/2006, 02:33 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Thanks for the tip Joe, my CPR Continous Syphon overflow box has a simular device, so I can probably get by without the pic, but thanks.

I've got most of the plumbing for the returns finished, but it's not connected yet, so now would be a good time to do that. With any luck, I'll get all the plumbing finished up and running before my new ones hatch Wed. night. I want to go ahead and move the first set of babies onto the new system, and just start with a slow drip to gently acclimate them to the new water. I hope I don't kill them!

John, good idea also on the shelf paper, I had a bunch of this foam left over from an old project, so it was free! I also noticed that the Fan Fold (1/4" blue insulation foam) fits the shelves perfectly, and it is mylar backed also. I had read somewhere that foam under a tank that might sit on an uneven surface was a good idea (Calfo's book I think) so I went that route.

It's all coming together quite nicely, thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Now I just have to find the $$ for the skimmers, return pump, and another shop light for the refugium and I'll be all set!
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #62  
Old 01/23/2006, 02:49 PM
NicoleC NicoleC is offline
Fish Yenta
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hartselle, AL
Posts: 8,525
Foam is good for acrylic tanks (shock absorbtion, insulation) but not good for rimmed glass tanks, which require a flat even surface for the rim. But 10g tanks aren't that heavy and the rim will probably be able to take the stress.
__________________
Don't count your gobies before they've metamorphasized.
  #63  
Old 01/23/2006, 03:22 PM
Kathy55g Kathy55g is offline
Moved On
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,247
It's the foam pushing up on the raised bottom of the glass tank that is the danger. However, the water will be pushing down in an opposing way, so perhaps there will be no problem.
  #64  
Old 01/23/2006, 04:49 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
This foam is only 1/4" thick, and pretty stiff because of the mylar backing on both sides. It's kinda like foam core that you see at art stores, but with a water proof plastic backing instead of paper. I don't think it has a chance of getting into the bottom, so hopefully I will be OK. I have to pull all the tanks to install the plumbing anyways, maybe I'll go with the shelf paper and doubled up wood at that time.

I found another mistake I made, rotifers on the bottom shelf is no good. Can't syphon from there, I had to laugh at myself. I think I will move those to the corner of the computer desk where I can see them better.
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #65  
Old 01/23/2006, 05:03 PM
ediaz ediaz is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 1,087
I had rots on the floor before, during construction, you can siphon as long as the container is at the same level, you are only removing less than half the water anyway...

Have you drilled all the tanks? The only problem i see with your overflow is that that type of set up is not very good at removing oils from the surface. Stand pipes are better at that. The only thing you can do is attach an elbow to the "bulkhead" but the hole is to close to the edge and will overflow.

Ed
  #66  
Old 01/23/2006, 08:40 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Ed,

Yet another thing I didn't think about, luckily I have only drilled 4 tanks. With the position of the holes being so high, I could probably turn those 4 into larvae tanks and drill the rest properly.

What do you think about running a short length of pipe out of the bulkhead, putting a closed end on it, and cutting the "top" of the cap open to allow for surface skimming?

I can drill more tanks, but my plumbing is already cut and glued (4 sets) for the position of these holes, so I really need to find a way to make them work as is. I suppose I could also cut down an elbow so that it didn't extend so high upwards. I'll look at it a little closer.

Thanks!
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #67  
Old 01/23/2006, 08:54 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Thanks Ed, that actually wasn't so hard. 2 minutes with a Dremel....how about this?

__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #68  
Old 01/23/2006, 10:42 PM
rsman rsman is offline
the cow flys at dawn
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: La Mesa Ca USA
Posts: 2,198
depending on where you keep the water level that will do just fine.
__________________
smile its all good
  #69  
Old 01/23/2006, 11:23 PM
Morgman Morgman is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Corona, California
Posts: 516
Not to be a pain but I doubt the o-ring method will last to long. You know how Murphy's law works. I would just silicone those fittings in and be done with them. The o-ring has too little surface area to perform over long periods of time. Plus to get a good seal you will have to crank down that fitting and run the risk of cracking the glass.
  #70  
Old 01/24/2006, 10:43 AM
ediaz ediaz is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 1,087
That is just perfect J, gonna do that myself...

Morgan is right, maybe if you get a flat gasket, I put silicone on the bulkheads even when they come with a pretty good seal.

Talking about future problems; use threaded ball valves, and screw them in with teflon, using slip valves with solvent will create a problem when the time to replace them comes, when they start leaking.

Ed
  #71  
Old 01/24/2006, 11:02 AM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Morgman, sounds more like you are trying to save me from being a pain in my own butt (no comments) Sounds like I need to break out the silicone.

Ed, I have only cut plumbing for 4 tanks so far (only bought one shelf until I see if it's going to work out, it's NOT). I can return most of the other stuff and get threaded ball valves and ends.

I'm now thinking I'm going to cycle the sump/refugium with this setup, and then redo a second setup (probably on a custom built shelving unit) with all of the corrections made. All in all, it wasn't THAT expensive of a learning experience. I also learned more what I want from my custom shelving, and a freind offered to let me use his well equipped wood shop. This thread will be about 57 pages by the time I get it right!

Thanks a lot everyone! I almost feel like I am ready to start another one properly.....almost. I'm going to try to talk one of the CAD guys here into making a 3D drawing of my shelf ideas. They can even print me out a materials list. Not to mention that you guys can look at my shelf design and offer suggestions to it as well.
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #72  
Old 01/24/2006, 02:14 PM
mattydub mattydub is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: state college, Pa
Posts: 625
you don't have to break out the silicone just yet....swing back to your lowes and ask them for rubber gasket material. It's sold in squares (12") and you can cut out flat "washer-like" o-rings from that. Saves you a mess with silicone that will most likely leak also!

HTH
__________________
THE only way to be successful in reefkeeping....Philippians 4:6-7!
  #73  
Old 01/24/2006, 02:15 PM
mattydub mattydub is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: state college, Pa
Posts: 625
of course, in all honesty, you're probably only saving 10-15$ from ordering regular bulkeads on line! gotta love DIYers though....=P
__________________
THE only way to be successful in reefkeeping....Philippians 4:6-7!
  #74  
Old 01/24/2006, 02:22 PM
jnowell jnowell is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 477
Yeah, it really wasn't a money savings thing as much as it was the step by step additions I plan. I didn't want to place 15 online orders, and am building the setup 4 tanks at a time. So I needed a way to buy 4 of everything, several times, when my monthly budget permitted it.

I'm also the type of guy that wants it when I need it, not when the UPS man shows up The hardware store is about 2 miles from home, so when I realize I need something, I have it in my hands in 10 minutes. I had bought some garden hose gaskets that fit as well, and they are flat, but I will probably go with silicone anyhow...it won't leak if you put enough on!
__________________
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something....
  #75  
Old 05/23/2007, 08:10 AM
james37128 james37128 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 65
This is an old, but good post. Wondering if you have any new updates on your system Jnowell. maybe even some new pictures to post.
__________________
"I cannot tell you the formula for sucess, but I can tell you that of failure; which is, try to please everyone"
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central™ Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2009