Clown fish breeding log ( I hope )

[aliyesami]

Im there now at Houstons link but I am lost , could you guide me where on that site I can find the information I am looking for?

thanks

[tedr]

The 8 64 day old survivors I have were from scooping larvae in the parent tank. I know I scooped up about 40 that night. I really believe that scooping them causes extreme stress and therefore high mortality. The approximately 40 that are 3 weeks old that I have are a result of using a clay flower pot and moving the pot into a larval 5g tank on the night of hatching. Less stress and better survival. Once you can get the larvae past metamorphasis ( approx 7 - 10 days), your mortality should be zero or very close to it. Good luck tonight !!!!! I'll try to pass on some ideas regarding rotifer cultures that seem to be working for me a little later. Have a LFS sale on used equipment, and I need a small skimmer for the 10g I use for final grow out.

[tedr]

Don't know why the article won't come up. I'll try contacting the Houston club and have the article sent to me. I tried answering you, but somehow my post ended up on another post in this forum, that being "I'm a Dad...." Could not delete it, so you might check what I posted there.

[olin]

Hi Pugi - nice log! With regards to the rotifers being stuck at the top, are you using an airstone? Often the fine bubbles can lodge on the rotifers corona or in the pharynx, sticking them to the water surface. Using very gentle aeration using only rigid airline tubing can help if this is the cause.

[Pugidogs]

Thanx olin, I do not use air stone in my rotifer tanks. Rigid air line bubbleing at about 2 or 3 bubbles per second. This is in a 10 gallon tank with 5 gallons of rotifer water. I am just not sure what the problem is...Pugi

[agsansoo]

Pugidogs,
Are you using any Amquel like products in you rotifers tank to detoxify ammonia ?

[Pugidogs]

No I am not. I checked the ammonia after the crash and it came up nil. Am I supposed to use it for rotifers? I dont remember anyone recomending it...Pugi

[Pugidogs]

Well its the night of day 9 and I just collected 200 + larvae. I am just staying up to double check the temp in the larvae tank. Rotifers dont look good, I am crossing my fingers that they breed fast for food in the morning....Pugi

[agsansoo]

My directions from Reef Nutrition say to add some (ClorAm-X) daily. I use Amquel.

So you collected the larvae with a bowl using a flashlight ? Who long after lights-out do they hatch ?

[billsreef]

Usually they will hatch within about 1-2 hours of lights out.

[billsreef]

With the rotifers, you might want to try culturing some phytoplankton. I find my rotifer cultures are less prone to crashing when using live phyto such nanochloropsis or isochrysus. Using dead feeds such as concentrated phyto pastes does work, but it is fine line between feeding enough and fouling the culture. With live, even if you add more than needed, it's alive and not fouling the culture

[tedr]

Pugi, If you haven't seen it, go to the "I'm a Dad..." post in this forum. Looks like he successfully got to the Houston club's article and posted the link. My error in posting the link was there is a space between clownfish raising in the url.

[Pugidogs]

Originally posted by agsansoo
My directions from Reef Nutrition say to add some (ClorAm-X) daily. I use Amquel.

So you collected the larvae with a bowl using a flashlight ? Who long after lights-out do they hatch ?

My light shut off at 9:30, I waited to 10:15 and checked with flashlite. They were just starting to hatch. By 10:45 I was done collecting. No eggs left in the clutch and I did a survey of the tank, I think I only missed a few. Less than 10......Pugi

[Pugidogs]

Originally posted by billsreef
With the rotifers, you might want to try culturing some phytoplankton. I find my rotifer cultures are less prone to crashing when using live phyto such nanochloropsis or isochrysus. Using dead feeds such as concentrated phyto pastes does work, but it is fine line between feeding enough and fouling the culture. With live, even if you add more than needed, it's alive and not fouling the culture

Bill, I have heard this from others as well, I was just trying to keep things as simple as posible to get started. Pugi

[tedr]

A suggestion with regard to the rotifers, try to spread out your cultures. I use four 1g containers that contained bottled water that I found at Dollar General. I've since found them at Big Lots. They work perfectly for me. Just get a 4 gang valve, and I would recommend metal. The plastic gang valve just cannot be fine tuned. Drill a small hiole in cap for the rigid air line, and you're ready to go. I do alternate feedings between DT, PhytoMax by Kent Marine (dead phyto), and a mixture of flour, yeast, some pellet fish food that I powdered. I then mix this with a hand held blender. I do use saltwater to dilute. With the cost of DT, this has been working fine for me. What you have to do, is change out containers every 1 to 2 weeks, especially using the dry blend of food. You'll get scum collecting on the bottom. Just take a clean container and slowly pour the contents into the clean container. I slowly pour out about 75% leaving behind all the scum. Then add new salt water, so in reality, you are doing a water change. Rinse out used container and let them soak in a water and a little bleach mixture. Thoroughly rinse them out after a few hours, and they're ready to be used in a couple of weeks. I've done this for 6 months with no losses whatsoever. I only feed the rotifers when the water becomes clear. I think most crashes may be the result of over feeding. Also, I have lights on a timer set for an 8 hour period. I have been able to maintain heavy populations in each container doing this. If I don't have any fry to feed, I'll just thin down the population by feeding my main tank. The corals seem to enjoy the feeding. Spreading out the cultures between 4 containers or more just lessens the possibility of a total loss when you culture in just one tank.

Good luck.

[Pugidogs]

tedr, thanx for the info. I am going to rethink my rotifer tanks thats for sure. I had a total crash, they are done.

Day 1 again.

Good news and bad news. Good news first, All but one survived the transfer. So now I have about 200 hungery mouths. Bad news, The rotifers are done, I am going to try to restart them from the small amount of sludge on the bottom. I hope there are some cycts in there.

I guess this group will have to eat dry food, I know my chances are not good but I have no other option. I am going to pulverize it and run it through a brine shrimp sieve. Do multiple feedings per day and clean the bottom alot.

Any other ideas?

I only took a quick pic for this log, I have the lights out and the top covered so they will not use up energy trying to feed on nothing. In this pic there are about 140 larvae....Pugi

[olin]

With the Ocellaris, during rotifer shortages I've had luck starting right off the bat with newly hatched brine shrimp (San Francisco strain, not GSL strain). Not all can/will take it, but I've had 25-50% survival this way. Not great, but better than total losses.

I also use live microalgae in conjunction with preserved in the rotifers. I keep the rots at 3/4 strength salinity rather than full. Ammonia effects are often diminished at lower salinities, and I've seen much better growth in the rots.

[billsreef]

Try and see if you can find frozen rotifers at a LFS. Hikari packages them. Also the San Francisco strain artemia are worth getting hatched out right away. Along with the finally strained pulverized dry food, you might have some luck with survival.

[tedr]

You might want to try Seahorse Source in Ft Pierce, FL. They have decapsulated artemia cysts that they title "Small Strain (A. sinica)" suspended in liquid. They claim they are the smallest available. This is all I'm using, but not usually until the 14th day. They normally ship 2 day, but they will call you when you place order online, and you could possibly set up overnight delivery, if you're so inclined. Either way, I would suggest decapsulated, because, as the Karen Bradley article points out, if not decupsulated, they could choke on the brine shrimp's capsule. Don't get disappointed either way. It may take some trial and error. It did on my end.

[tedr]

A P.S. on the rotifer post. The containers I'm referring to are square, not rounded like a soda bottle. You can stand 4 - 5 side by side, and one round reflector with the spring clip should supply the light needed.

[Pugidogs]

Thanx for the help all, it is greatly appreciated!!!!!

Here is what I have done so far, The rofiter tanks had a few living ones in them so I sieved 4 gallons from each, leaving one gallon. Took what little rotifers I had and gut loaded and coated with selco. Added to larvae tank. Density is about 3 per ML. The larvae tank only has two gallons in it. I also added IA in larvae tank in hopes the might reproduce a little. I pulverized some flake and added a little as well. I am going to start BBS ASAP. Unfortunatly mine is GSL. I decapsulate myself. It appears the stomachs are turning silver so thats a good sign. I also started a 1 gallon emergency batch of rotifers last night. It has a density of about 1 or 2 per ML right now. I hope it grows like crazy tonight. There is still hope and I am doing all I can...Pugi

[tedr]

Looks like you've got your log going. Keep it up and GOOD LUCK !!!!!

[Pugidogs]

Originally posted by tedr
Looks like you've got your log going. Keep it up and GOOD LUCK !!!!!

Thanx tedr, I finally got that dang article to open and then realized that it is one of the first I printed off when I decited to try this. I also have Joyce Wilkerson's clownfishes book. I cannot recomend it enough, very good. Pugi

[Pugidogs]

A question, my nitrites are starting to climb, ammonia is at 0. I did a 25% water change with tank water. The tank water's nitrites are at 0. after the change the nitrites in the larvae tank are still 3.0.

nitrate...60
nitrite....3.0
PH.........8.0

Is this safe? Or do I do bigger water changes and try to drop the nirites down some more? Thanx...Pugi

[billsreef]

Nitrites are not really a problem in SW. However, with feeding dead type foods you likely are getting a good bit of debris and might want to siphon the bottom twice a day.