starting 55gal need a little insight

[fraidso]

whats up reefers,
i had a couple of question for all you, new and experienced. Im gona be starting a tank soon. Specs: 55gal tank, 305 fluval canister filter, various power heads and heater. What would be a good amount of rock to use? How long would it take to turn dead rock into live rock? Is live rock really that much better? Im a reefer on a budget, so i can dont mind the extra time it takes to get everything acclimated before i start adding inhabitants.

I know this is a little scattered, but i have been reading and kind of feel overwhelmed with all the options that come with this hobby.

thanks
chris

[pack93]

Everything I have heard and read says to have approximately 1-2 lbs of live rock per gallon of water. I just started my tank and that is what I have done and it seems to work. I went with all live rock but I think you can mix base rock on the bottom with live rock on top.

[stingythingy45]

Skip the canister filter and get a nice powerful skimmer.

[Vinnie71975]

Originally posted by stingythingy45
Skip the canister filter and get a nice powerful skimmer.

Agree and also don't be afraid to post all your questions no matter how silly they may seem to you! I would go with about 100lbs of Nice quality Base rock and maybe 10 to 20 lbs of "live Rock" i would also go with about 55 to 75 lbs of argonite sand Carbi sea makes a nice sand DO NOT USE PLAY SAND!!! i don't care what anyone says play sand is EVIL it is bottom of the barrel crushed Land rocks it can have Iron,copper and other heavy minerals that you don't see a problem with right away but 6 months to a year down the line you have things start going wrong. it happened to a friend and come to find out (after he lost over 3000.00 worth of Fish and Inverts that the play sand he used was copper heavy and cause the deaths.He was so heart broken he left the hobby for good!

[95accord]

1-2lbs of rock and 1-2lbs of sand is a good rule of thumb to start off. let tank cycle for 3months-ish. should be in the clear after than.

[fraidso]

Originally posted by stingythingy45
Skip the canister filter and get a nice powerful skimmer.

Thought about the skimmer, the only thing is the tank in acrylic and has this lid thing that blocks the edge from letting me hang a skimmer, i could cut it but, not sure.

[splateee]

Agreed, about 1 to 2lbs rock per gallon. I would leave out the canister filter or just use it to run carbon and nothing else in it. I would also add a skimmer. I had a 50 gallon setup at one time with a CPR bakpak skimmer and a power filter for running carbon and it worked great. Also check to see if you have any local marine fish clubs in your area, you can get live rock from there for alot cheaper than at a LFS. Good luck and have fun.

[stingythingy45]

Originally posted by fraidso
Thought about the skimmer, the only thing is the tank in acrylic and has this lid thing that blocks the edge from letting me hang a skimmer, i could cut it but, not sure.

Hmmmmm......that does cause a problem with the hang on models.Maybe someone will know if it ok to cut the bracing.
I think they call that Euro-bracing.As it acrylic it would be pretty easy to drill it and add a sump.Then you could put your skimmer there.

[corbett_n]

The typhoon skimmer by D&D can be used even with a lip on the tank

[fraidso]

is a skimmer different from a wet/dry filter?

[dsn112]

I think one of the tunze skimmers can be used with a liped tank...

[jcpatella]

I have a 55g tank right now, and I have no clue how I'd fit 100lbs of rock in it. I have about 50-60lbs of rock and it's already crowded. If I'd have known better, I would have put about 20 lbs of live rock and about 40 lbs (or a little more) of base rock.

As for the skimmer, don't get the always-available SeaClone. It seems like a good deal but there are other cheap skimmers out there that work much better. I had one and it worked alright, but I was constantly adjusting it. I've heard some people say that the AquaC Remora works well, but I don't have experience with it.

[fraidso]

Originally posted by Vinnie71975
Agree and also don't be afraid to post all your questions no matter how silly they may seem to you! I would go with about 100lbs of Nice quality Base rock and maybe 10 to 20 lbs of "live Rock" i would also go with about 55 to 75 lbs of argonite sand Carbi sea makes a nice sand DO NOT USE PLAY SAND!!! i don't care what anyone says play sand is EVIL it is bottom of the barrel crushed Land rocks it can have Iron,copper and other heavy minerals that you don't see a problem with right away but 6 months to a year down the line you have things start going wrong. it happened to a friend and come to find out (after he lost over 3000.00 worth of Fish and Inverts that the play sand he used was copper heavy and cause the deaths.He was so heart broken he left the hobby for good!

so the live rock will transform base rock. Whats the time line?

[Leafer]

I have a 55g with 75lbs of LR. I have 15lbs more curing to get me to what I'd feel is the right amount. Some though I admit will go in the fuge.

fraidso, take that budget you are looking at and multiply by ten. Still want to do this? If I could give advice to my self when I was starting I would scream - don't do it.

One of the first things you will also need is a RO unit for making pure water.

[cur10u5g30rg3]

I would set up a sump with the skimmer. This will give you additional space to keep additional rock. I would stay away from the canisters. I ran one for a long time and never had any problems. I pulled it off my system and haven't seen any adverse affects so it basically wasn't serving any purpose other than creating a little flow. The acrylic tank can be drilled for an external overflow. A sump will allow you to keep a skimmer, a reactor with phosban and one with carbon, and other useful equipment. The best part is it can all be hidden which I think is more asthetically apealing.

[Sk8r]

Acrylic is dead easy to drill, compared to glass. You insert a bulkhead fitting, get it leakproof, glue in a downflow box, screw on a durso kit inside that box, and you are Cadillac reef ready. After that, life is way simple---your skimmer goes in the sump, your heater, your topoff float, your return pump, all go into the sump, you have no intake into which your critters will suicide, you will only have the downflow teeth....it is sooooo much better than managing hang-ons, which stall, go dry, lose suction, flood, overflow, and generally are a constant problem.

If you have not yet bought or watered that tank, you might want to consider buying a reef-ready tank from the get-go. A little pricier, but so worth it.

Cannisters are not part of a reef tank. You will need ro/di, a good skimmer [I use an Aqua C EV 120 in a 54g and find it just fine.] and about a 30g sump.

[cardiffgiant]

I use an eheim 2217 cannister with my 55. I don't have room for a huge sump, so I like the added volume, flow, and mechanical filtration.

[fraidso]

ok, so the sump is the way to go. is it possible to work up to that by starting with a fish only tank and base rock. then adding live rock later to transform it to a reef tank. the problem i have is i dont have all the necessary funds to dive into the expensive stuff. i already have a canister filter. i get that if im going to by a filtration device, buy whats needed first so i dont waste money in the long run.

I guess what im trying to ask (now) is can i work up to a full blown reef tank over time? Is this not recommended? is their a risk? would i be wasting money in the long run? Should i just stick with a fish only tank and on the next tank i fabricate (in time) build a reef tank?



thanks for all the input in advance.

[jawfish1]

Originally posted by fraidso
is a skimmer different from a wet/dry filter?

Yes, a Skimmer is a cylinder looking device that uses micro bubble to remove protein garbage from the water. A Wet/dry filter is a large box locking device that has is used to filter the water using bio-balls or similar media, etc. Wet/dry filters were essentially the "canister" filters for the older reef style systems.

In today's world, really all you need as a filter for a reef tank is a) protein skimmer, b) live rock and good water flow. That's really all you need. Obviously, there are only a couple of components here, so they are all very critical. Therefore it is not wise to skimp in any of these areas. Be sure to get a good skimmer, a fair amount of live rock and maintain good water flow.

Optional components to a reef tank (for filter purposes) would be to run a carbon filter, filter sock (to catch particulate matter), refugium (to grow macro algae, etc) and a UV light.

As other's have indicated, running a reef tank is a very expensive hobby. It requires a lot of stuff and a lot of care. If you want something simple, then stick with a fish only system (in which case you could get away with a canister filter) or the small nano cubes.

so the live rock will transform base rock. Whats the time line?

Yes, if you have some dead base rock and seed your tank with Live Rock, it will turn the base rock into live rock in time. How long? It will take some time for good coralline algae growth to show up. I'd say a couple of months or so. For good rock, it would take about 6 months. If you use something like Purple Up, this would certainly help a lot (and I highly recommend).

Cheers!

[iwishtofish]

Developing extreme patience can go a long way in helping prevent reef keeping from changing from just an enjoyable hobby to an obsession. I wish I had some patience!!

That said, while you are saving/budgeting money, take your time (a lot of it) and soak up all the generous free advice from the experienced people here (I do, and if they tolerate me they will tolerate anyone!). You can never go too slowly. Do it all right the first time! Mistakes are hard to correct, expensive, and discouraging in this hobby.

Hardware-wise, I wouldn't do it in steps, if at all avoidable. I think it would make things too difficult. But that's just me- still a nooB!

Oh, and yes, the hobby is a bottomless pit, moneywise. There is ALWAYS something you need to buy...

Good luck!

[trdofwrkin]

Originally posted by jcpatella
I have a 55g tank right now, and I have no clue how I'd fit 100lbs of rock in it. I have about 50-60lbs of rock and it's already crowded. If I'd have known better, I would have put about 20 lbs of live rock and about 40 lbs (or a little more) of base rock.

As for the skimmer, don't get the always-available SeaClone. It seems like a good deal but there are other cheap skimmers out there that work much better. I had one and it worked alright, but I was constantly adjusting it. I've heard some people say that the AquaC Remora works well, but I don't have experience with it.

I have a 55g bowfront with about 50 pounds live rock and 60 pounds of sand. I have an emperor 400 filter and a hob refugium for filtration. It works great. You dont need all that rock take half of it out.

[ljosh]

Not everyone here uses a skimmer. If you keep the bio load lower and do more water changes to compensate it is doable. Make sure to monitor nitrates.

One method of skimmerless tanks is to use a DSB and LR. Water flow is important.

Using all dead rock will be fine. Put it in the tank with at least one piece of liverock to seed coralline algae and half a cup of of live sand from someones established reef. It may take a few months to liven up but time is free. Add some fish food or a shrimp to start the cycle and let it go. You can always add some fresh liverock later to get more bio diversity.

When the time comes to upgrade you will have some nicely established liverock and a perfect 55G sump for your 125G RR tank.

[fraidso]

Originally posted by ljosh
One method of skimmerless tanks is to use a DSB and LR. Water flow is important.

Sorry not to fammiliar with all the abreviations. DSB? deep sand bed.


This is great, keep it coming, id like to here some more from reefers who dont use skimmers.

[ljosh]

DSB is deep sand bed. I think usually 3 1/2 inches or deeper of fine argonite sand. It does take up some of your display space but it will naturally lower Nitrates. You do not want to stir it up

For more info about reefers without skimmers search the word skimmerless here to start:

http://reefcentral.com/search.php?menu=11

[fraidso]

i read somewhere that you want to stir the sand or move it around once a week so that the filter will dispose of the nitrates....