? for super-wood finishers: Matching new finish to old finish.

[piercho]

I'd like to restore the interior woodwork in the living room and dining room of a 1917 Craftsman bungalow. The boxed beams, posts, and built-in book cases are all the original finish. But some mullet-head painted the window and door trim to match the walls with oil paint between 60 and 80. So... once I get the paint off, is there a good resource that would tell me how to match the new finish to the old? I think the wood is clear douglas fir, just because thats what was so common here in the Pac NW back then. I know the floors are doug fir. But it could be big-leaf maple or a shipped-in hardwood. The finish is quite dark, with some sort of hard laquer that I assume is oil based and has darkened with age.

So, for those of you with "extreme" wood restoration skills, please point me in the right direction. The original builder was also the owner for 45 years, he really put a lot of care into the construction details, and I'd like to make her look like she did when he finished her.

[Agu]

Go into a closet for a piece of trim you can remove. Then visit several stores until you can find matching stain/sealer.

Worked for me,

[piercho]

I thought it was more complicated than that?! That would be easy! Thing is, if you are not dead on with the patena of the older finish, won't it be noticeable?

Agu, I've been cussing real estate agents since our last experience, but I have to say the one handling this transaction has earned her keep. We've always been interested in this house, but were caught unprepared when it came on the market. In fact, we were getting feasability estimates to do a massive remodel of our current house, and had no intention of moving until we just happened to walk by this one and there was an open house. Five days later, we have a P&S on our house at nearly top dollar and a written agreement from the owner of the house we want not to bump our contingency as long as our deal stays on track. I'm just frazzled, shell shocked, but thoroughly amazed. Financially, I'm an extremely cautious person, I could never have dove in like this without someone leading me by the hand. Plus, shes been 24-hour aggressive about getting our deal locked up with other people trying to manuever into our position with the seller. Hes very sentimental about the property, they are only selling because of illness, and getting us on friendly terms with him has been the key to him commiting to sell to us. If you are anything like her, you've have my respect.

[Agu]

It's not that easy, you're probably not going to find it at home depot.

Your best bet would be a specialty paint store or a custom cabinetry shop. Both should be experienced matching stains (often they'll custom mix stains to match existing woodwork) and can recommend the correct top coat. Besides matching the stain some of the newer sealants are incompatible with existing finishes in an old house.

You probably won't be right on but with windows and doors it's not up against a lot of other woodwork so if you're reasonably close no one will notice but you.

fwiw,

[piercho]

or a custom cabinetry shop

OK, yes, that makes sense and I didn't think of tapping a resource like that. I've got other business with a custom cabinet shop as I'd like to un-remodel the kitchen, eventually, and put back in the tall cabinets with windowed doors. They've saved the doors in the basement.

[waterlily]

What is a P&S? When do you move in/out?

We got in a whirlwind of a situation too. We've been in our house for 13 years and a lot needs to be done to get it ready for sale. We were looking for a house on 1/2 - 1 acre land, but not seriously and we honestly didn't think we'd find such an animal around here. You either get at least 3 acres or you get a yard barely big enough to fit the house on. No in-betweens. We just happened to be driving around a few weeks ago and noticed a neighborhood under construction and one of the lots happened to be .8 acre. The lots were going fast with this crazy real estate market, so in a flurry of activity, we ended up signing a contract to have a house built on that property and we have to get this house ready for sale ASAP. We find out today if the builder will accept our contingency that we sell this house before closing on the one he builds. Shouldn't be a problem, but I'm a little nervous.

Happy moving!

[piercho]

P&S= Purchase and Sale Agreement. When you bid on a house it is usually done through a P&S written up by your realtor. The seller can accept the offer or counter by ammending the P&S. It also defines when certain conditions have to be met, like inspections, proof of financing, etc. Its kind of a working agreement that gets both parties from the initial bid to closing.

We plan to move out the 25th, approximately 30 days after making the initial bid.

[saltycurofaseadog]

[revance]

Sorry to say this, but you aren't going to match the wood. If it is from 1917, the wood has aged. Once you sand that down you are going to expose "fresh" wood. Even if you stain it so it looks similar, given time it will age and then look different from the original. Your best bet is to refinish everything at the same time.


Edit: the extent to which the aged wood will make a difference depends on what kind of wood it is. Some don't change much, while others change quite a bit.

[piercho]

I'd considered what revance is suggesting, but in the living room and dining room it just seems like an awesome task. What I may have to settle for is to have stains that contrast with and compliment the origonal stain, instead of trying for an exact match.

[ShannonT]

from ShannonT's husband:

I'm no expert, but perhaps I can offer some knowledge gained from experience replacing the base mouldings in my kitchen (which had been replaced with plastic).

I was advised to use the same wood (white pine) and the same finish (amber shellac) as the rest of the house, and wait for the new to match the old, which will happen eventually. I didn't do that, but you certainly can. I used a dye to tint my finish a bit so it looks closer to the original, but not as dark (since the wood will darken as it ages).

If your house was built in 1917, and assuming the wood has its original finish, your woodwork may be finished with shellac, which is extremely easy to work with, or perhaps a varnish. It's probably not lacquer; lacquer dries very fast, and is commonly sprayed as a result, which is not easy to do on a jobsite.

You can test the finish in an inconspicuous spot. Apply some denatured alcohol. If the finish quickly becomes sticky, it's probably shellac. If it doesn't melt well, try lacquer thinner. If this does the trick, it's lacquer. If the lacquer thinner doesn't work, you probably have varnish of some sort.

If applying the original finish to the wood doesn't approximate the right color, you can use a stain. Different woods will take stain differently however. Pine for example does not stain well - it splotches.

The best two resources I found were a book (I think it's called "Understanding Wood Finishes" by Bob Flexner) and the friendly folks at Rockler Woodworking and Hardware. They can help identify the wood and the finish, and help you stain and finish your wood properly. The book covers how to remove finishes (e.g., paint) and how to stain and finish various types of wood.

[piercho]

Shannon's husband, thanks a load!! Thats a lot of good information. I'm almost positive its old-growth douglas fir, as the owner has refinished one door and it sure looks like clear fir. Plus, the Peninsula was fairly isolated back then, high-quality fir would have been what was readily available. I've read fir takes stain simularly to pine: poorly. The wood I'd be trying to match has a really dark finish, with the grain of the wood barely visible.

Well, I'll go with one given: the wood that didn't get painted won't get stripped. Its just too difficult of a task to even consider, I think. The painted stuff would be easy enough to take down and haul off to be dipped. So, the primarly choice is to give matching the finish a shot or use a contrasting finish that goes well with the original finished wood, I think.

[ShannonT]

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think!

[piercho]

The transaction finally posted 7/26. I hope I never have to go through that process again.

The painted trim is clear douglas fir, probably virgin timber. Thats also the wood flooring used through the house except for the main room where they used top-nailed, clear, white oak. Upstairs, they didn't paint the interior of the closets or carpet the floor and the doors/trim/floor inside are really beautiful.

We've decided to keep the trim painted, for now. The renovation tasks in front of us are too overwhelming to consider anything else. If we ever do strip the trim wood, it will likely be one room at a time, one room a year. BTW Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishes was available from our library and has been a very useful book. Thanks to everyone who provided inputs.

One lucky break that we've gotten was on the oak floor in the main room. Pulled up the 20+ year-old carpet and found a lovely floor in good condition, with a good-enough finish to leave for now. It actually had a reflection once we wiped the carpet pad detritus off of it! The fir floor in the hallway and other rooms is looking rougher. What I think I'll do is thow down a float foor over the fir floor. Its quick to do compared to refinishing the floor, not too expensive, and will preserve the original floor until someone gets around to doing something with it.

I managed to save the reef tank. What a job that was. I finally found a legitimate reason NOT to have a DSB: its really heavy and impossible to move intact. For now the pets are down in the basement where I can freely slosh water on the floor and its nice and cool.

Thanks again to everyone. Wish I had a picture of the house but what the heck box DID I put that camera in, anyway?

[Clown-N-Around]

We had a similar lucky break in our home, wood floors in good condition under the carpet. Our Real Estate agent helped us by showing us how to check where the heat registers come up through the floor to see if our house had hardwood underneath. The bonus part was that it was in such great shape!

Good luck with all the remodeling projects. We just redid our whole kitchen and family room, down to the studs and subfloor! It is a big task, but so worth it!

If you ever do try and restain the wood (which sounds like the least of your problems at this point!), I am of the opinion that trying to match the other trim (using the methods everyone outlined) might be your best bet. Like Agu said, they are not right next to each other so if they are slightly different, no one will know. A contrasting trim would make the fact that they are redone very obvious.

PS- I am so glad the reef made it to the new place

[ShannonT]

Good to hear!

Have fun unpacking.