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  #26  
Old 08/09/2006, 02:52 PM
cschweitzer cschweitzer is offline
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One last thing, if someone told me the only time I could come pick something up was at 6:30, I'd laugh at him and do exactly what KK did.
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  #27  
Old 08/09/2006, 02:54 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Let me see if I can slide a post in before this gets deleted!!!

Reef Central Rocks baby!!!!!!!!! Reef Central is the best forum on the web!!!!! Go RC Go!!!!!

Anyway, glad to see you guys are trying to work this out.

mike
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  #28  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:08 PM
do6151 do6151 is offline
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They way it worked

When the seller was interested i told him to call me as he did. We talked it over and he sent me the deposit, he told me he could not pick it up for two weeks and i said that was ok. Then the third week he made arrangements to pick it up then his ride fell through so he then made arrangements to pick it up this sat and i asked if he could pick it up during the week or on sunday he said he could not. he then said this was to much of a hassel that he just wanted to forget it, it was to far for him, his girl friend didnt like the idea etc... The first 3 weeks HE could not pick it up. the forth week i would not be home but ii told him my wife would, but at that point he wanted his money back. End of story.......
  #29  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:16 PM
Krazy Krazy is offline
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the 2nd week I tried to pick it up, you went skydiving or something, you told me this coming saturday instead.. I said GREAT, then you said this saturday was no good, had to work... then I asked for refund, then you said I could now come to get it again, you made the wife take time off so I could make it...
  #30  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:16 PM
emelton emelton is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJAnderson
If you gave a deposit and then didn't buy the item, why would you expect your money back? That's the concept behind a "deposit".
This is the concept.

A "deposit" is to hold at certain price or agreement.
a "Non-Refundable deposit" is just that.
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  #31  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:24 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Actually...

Deposit - a sum payable as a first installment on a purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later.

keywords here...pledge for a contract.

Mike
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  #32  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:30 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Oh yeah, I bought something from a pawn shop back a few years ago. I only had enough to cover $100 which was more than the deposit but didn't have enough to buy the item. Weeks later (5) I went to pay in full but the shop had sold the item because I waited more than the 30 days...I was SOL. Yeah it sucked, but it was my fault.

Should I have whined to my CC company and tried to get them to give me my money back? Eitherway, I didn't.

Mike
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  #33  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:37 PM
MJAnderson MJAnderson is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by emelton
This is the concept.

A "deposit" is to hold at certain price or agreement.
a "Non-Refundable deposit" is just that.
It is also a way to keep people from tying up the item you are trying to sell while they figure out if they should have even tried to buy it in the first place. Think of it as a disincentive to wasting a seller's time.
  #34  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:43 PM
Krazy Krazy is offline
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I had every intention to buy it, I OFFERED $100 to hold it, it wasnt asked for by dan...

either way this post is gonna be deleted, dan and I agree enough is enough on here...
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  #35  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:45 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krazy K
I agree enough is enough on here...
Why, because you didn't get the backing you were hoping for?

Mike
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  #36  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:47 PM
Krazy Krazy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MacnReef
Why, because you didn't get the backing you were hoping for?

Mike
No that doesnt bother me... its a fourm, do you really think I care what anyone here thinks ?

its just the point that even you people are arguging with each other now...
  #37  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:49 PM
cschweitzer cschweitzer is offline
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Thank you for explaining your sides a little better. It depends on who is telling the actual scenario, but it seems like there was either miscommunication or misunderstanding of the terms of agreement. If they are not set in stone, the deal should be dissolved. A deposit is usually set and contractually agreed upon in terms prior to sale occurring. Deposits, unlike how Mike has put it, are many times refundable or percentage refundable if deal falls through. If none of these arragements were made prior to deposit being left, the terms are not clear. If terms of a deal are not clear, we should at least be able to agree it was not a formal deposit and it was not a formal agreement of terms. If terms are not met by both sides, the deal should be put off. I still think, in any of these cases, if he did not receive the product, he should be able to get refunded for the deposit. Besides, Mike, there was no contract, no contractual agreement that states anything involved with this sale's deposit. No contractual bindings, no deposit. I'm not legally involved in this case, but it would prove who is the bigger man if you would just give the deposit back, Dan. I'm not saying you are wrong, I really don't know from your posts and discrepencies in time frames. Next time, in your pms, agree on a refund or lack thereof before beginning a deal. Whenever I trade with someone, I work out what will happen in the event of a loss or such. With purchases I attempt the same. I make sure we discuss the major problems that can arise. I guess you don't have to return it, Dan. If not, KK, try to continue your attempt to regain the money legally through PP and Visa. If nothing comes of it, live and learn. $100 isn't that much in the long run and after this, make sure to carefully describe your attempts of any more deposits.

What would you guys say to a compromise, maybe a 30% fee for the holding of the product and an 70% return to the person for no receipt of the product? Not saying that is proper or right, just an idea with some figures I came up with off the top of my head. Kind of the same way it is with a hotel...If you cancel before a certain time, you a percentage back. Again, I am just trying to make it so noone gets screwed.

Another idea is just to give me the deposit and let me put it into a financial investment(me) J/K. How about a donation to RC or to MACNA or something reef related. Heck, that way you can write it off on your taxes at the end of the year.
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Two fish are sitting in a tank...one looks over to the other and says, "I hope you know how to drive this thing!"
  #38  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:53 PM
cschweitzer cschweitzer is offline
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Arguing keeps us alive and concious in the duldrums of the day...I love good arguements.
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Two fish are sitting in a tank...one looks over to the other and says, "I hope you know how to drive this thing!"
  #39  
Old 08/09/2006, 03:57 PM
cschweitzer cschweitzer is offline
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By the way, Mike, you proved my point as to why the seller is wrong. A pledge for a contract implies there was a contract. If those are the key words, you are incorrect to call it a deposit. In that case it is a down payment.
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Two fish are sitting in a tank...one looks over to the other and says, "I hope you know how to drive this thing!"
  #40  
Old 08/09/2006, 04:05 PM
Krazy Krazy is offline
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I'd do the 70% / 30% thing...

Dan could refund me $70.00 and he could keep the $30.00 for the hassle....

I'd agree on that...
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  #41  
Old 08/09/2006, 04:42 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Well Craig (since I know who you are), I see where you are coming from but I must say that you are wrong. I didn't prove myself wrong, all I did was give the definition of deposit...nothing more.

All I was saying is that by giving a deposit he was under contract to buy, legally. Say they go to court, you wanna bet the judge says that KK can have his tank as that was the agreement. I seriously doubt the judge would make him give the $100 back.

Mike
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  #42  
Old 08/09/2006, 04:52 PM
cschweitzer cschweitzer is offline
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I'm sorry, you misinterpreted. I did not say you were wrong, I simply stated you proved why the seller was wrong. The problem is if a deposit is strictly by definition, then this was not a deposit. There was no written contract signed or even agreed to beforehand. There was no verbal contract as that requires at least one outside witness which did not occur. I was not trying to argue semantics, just proving semantics work in both directions. Truthfully, I think both sides have valid points. I'm just trying to see it from both sides...something about us always being on the opposite side of an arguement. We must see the world in completely different colors. I do, however value your opinion and enjoy giving you mine. You really make me think inside the box, as I am 99% of the time on the outside of it. Sometimes it's good to have the advocate's devil on your shoulder.

I hope that all of your issues get resolved in a manner that can be not too detrimental to the other side. The best democracy is when both sides are equally annoyed with the outcome. Keep everyone relatively slightly disgruntled and noone will be REALLY upset. G/L to both of you, Do and KK.
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Two fish are sitting in a tank...one looks over to the other and says, "I hope you know how to drive this thing!"
  #43  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:23 PM
BrianD BrianD is offline
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cschweitzer, I don't have any dogs in this fight, but I have to say I disagree with your reasoning. If someone gives a "deposit" for an item, it is done to prevent the seller from finding another buyer, and to insure that the item will be "held" until full payment is made. If the "deposit" is considered fully refundable at the time of its making, the potential buyer can void the sale at any time with no penalty, while the seller must risk losing other potential buyers in the interim. The deposit is similar to an option: you are buying the right to take the item off the market for a period of time. In this case, that agreed upon price was $100.

I dont' think that is the issue in this case. To me, it appears that the issue is whether or not the seller provided the buyer with a reasonable opportunity to pick up the item. If the seller restricted the available times of pickup so much that the buyer had no reasonable time to fulfill his part of the contract, I think the seller is at fault. If the buyer did not make a reasonable effort to pick up the item in the window of time provided by the seller, I think the buyer would be at fault.

Now that I have posted all that, it is going to be sad if I have to delete this thread
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  #44  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:33 PM
Slickdonkey Slickdonkey is offline
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This thread is a perfect example of why this board sucks.
  #45  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:36 PM
rhiggsbear rhiggsbear is offline
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Generally, a deposit is fully refundable if the seller does not having any monetary damages due to the buyer backing out of the deal. For example, if a seller listed an item for $300.00 and you gave him a $50.00 deposit, then decides to back out of the deal, he can keep all or a portion of the deposit to make up for any out-of-pocket costs. This would include additional advertising costs over and above what he already spent or if he ended up selling the item for less than the $300.00. He can not profit from keeping the deposit – make more money than what he would have got selling the item at full cost.

Keep in mind I am not addressing a "non-refundable deposit" as I do not believe this is what we have here in this case.

The seller should return 100% of the deposit if he was able to sell the tank for full price and did not incur any additional costs doing so. If this went to small claims court, the buyer would prevail.
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  #46  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:37 PM
MacnReef MacnReef is offline
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Okay, with that remark, tell us all why it sucks. I have totally disagree with you if you are actually serious.

Mike
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  #47  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:40 PM
Slickdonkey Slickdonkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MacnReef
Okay, with that remark, tell us all why it sucks. I have totally disagree with you if you are actually serious.

Mike
I think there is a lot of petty bickering that goes on in many threads. It is tiresome. I really could care less about picking sides in this battle.

There are many threads with newbies asking information that get zero replies.

And why have so many experts such as Calfo left this board in disgust? This is a topic for another thread. I've said my piece, feel free to send the censorship nazis after me if you like.
  #48  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:48 PM
BrianD BrianD is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slickdonkey
I've said my piece, feel free to send the censorship nazis after me if you like.
Rule #1: Refer to moderators of this board with that despicable term, you have joined the ranks of those movin' on.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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  #49  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:49 PM
Krazy Krazy is offline
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LOL!!!

this thread is gettin good !
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  #50  
Old 08/09/2006, 05:51 PM
BrianD BrianD is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhiggsbear
Generally, a deposit is fully refundable if the seller does not having any monetary damages due to the buyer backing out of the deal. ......The seller should return 100% of the deposit if he was able to sell the tank for full price and did not incur any additional costs doing so. If this went to small claims court, the buyer would prevail.
Excellent points! Thanks Rhiggsbear!

By the way, I hope the buyer and seller work it out, but contrary to what a certain poster maintains, this is why the board is the success it is. I know I have been educated on this thread, and when you are as brilliant as I am already, that is saying quite a bit
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